What say you abt the article in Sunday TimesPg8

[AquaRa]

if my memory serves me correctly, they are selling 2 systems, system A and system B, though i see no difference in both systems. Both use large amounts of bioballs. Btw, the 5 ft tank on display was around 4000+ bucks, including ls.

[Goondoo]

if my memory serves me correctly, they are selling 2 systems, system A and system B, though i see no difference in both systems. Both use large amounts of bioballs. Btw, the 5 ft tank on display was around 4000+ bucks, including ls.

Interesting.....

I think the better way is to organise a trip to SP for you pros to "TEST" their water parameters.

I know nuts about marine tank and such publishing could have easily won me over.

You never know, they might have something really new that are suppose to be a "trade secret" since the whole research was sponsored and "buy over" by Coral Reef? I might be able to arrange a visit if you guys are interested.

About the biological filtering itself, its nothing new at all, planted tank owners, like myself, tends to use alot of bio rings to host the bacteria that is suppose to do such tasks of converting from ammonia/ammonium(NH4/NH3) to nitrite(NO2)to nitrate(NO3).

From what I understand, NO3 itself is totally harmless to fish, but are one of the main elements required for plants(including algaes) to grow well. I know nothing about its affects on corals though.

Cheers,

Goondoo

[Reefbum]

Way to go shoelevy.Wake up those reporters who don't get their facts right before putting in print.

[Archer82]

Hi Bro Shoelevy,

I think you did a great job sending that e-mail as when I saw the article, I had the same reaction that many other SRC members had and I believe that dispelling the myth of a revolutionary system that is not so revolutionary on close scrutinisation is very important to saving the large numbers of marine creatures which will be bought by people who rely on such a system w/o knowing what is actually going on.

Honestly I hope that the message gets through and that further research is done on such a system before it experiences so much of publicity otherwise we're going to have another sensational luohan like rush for marine life

It is rather sad how people's ignorance to seeing the bigger picture can lead them to publicise what may be a potential flaw.

Maybe these students should be placed in a room with recycled stale air for about a year before they realise the true effect of what they are doing.

Good Job Bro !

Cheers

Archer

[hotlemond]

shoelevy,

I salute you... damm good reply to them

now am only concern that the mis-informed will jump into the hobby and kill more precious lives. Hope the newpapers will clarify on these

[huanjie]

Didn't know there is another thread here about the article :

shoelevy : bravo

Hope the journalists read your mail and do their homework next time before publishing another irresponsible/misleading article in our main-stream news media.

[prec]

i sure hope to see ST's reply in the Forum.. haha

[35Cents]

Journalists in this cases are just reporting what the company or research calms especially one that have "awards" or "viewing" endosement from some politicians. (Somehow, it smells of poly recuiting agenda as the 'O's just came out) The reporters are not to blame. That is why there are forum pages whereby the public can write for feedback/correction.

The whole debate here still lies in the information (or rather misinformation) given out (or withheld) to public. The thought of profiting from ignorant public that affect real lives of corals and fishes is nauseous. Come to think of it, I personally dun really have an agenda with the company as I understand it's all about profits and securing a deal/permit to make such tanks that the poly boost about. They may think that "Wow, an established education institute had "invented" a no-need-to-change-water-tank that had won awards and praised by some politicians, it MUST be working!". Of course, how much they really know is debatable, next life may they be LS in such no-need-to-change-water-tank.

My main point is that education of the public in regards to reef keeping is very important. You sell yours... I preach mine... in due time I have no doubt who will prevail.

[salivateforme]

Journalists in this cases are just reporting what the company or research calms especially one that have "awards" or "viewing" endosement from some politicians. (Somehow, it smells of poly recuiting agenda as the 'O's just came out) The reporters are not to blame. That is why there are forum pages whereby the public can write for feedback/correction.

The whole debate here still lies in the information (or rather misinformation) given out (or withheld) to public. The thought of profiting from ignorant public that affect real lives of corals and fishes  is nauseous. Come to think of it, I personally dun really have an agenda with the company as I understand it's all about profits and securing a deal/permit to make such tanks that the poly boost about. They may think that "Wow, an established education institute had "invented" a no-need-to-change-water-tank that had won awards and praised by some politicians, it MUST be working!". Of course, how much they really know is debatable, next life may they be LS in such no-need-to-change-water-tank.

My main point is that education of the public in regards to reef keeping is very important. You sell yours... I preach mine... in due time I have no doubt who will prevail.

shoelevy...your comet is about make an impact...good job.

[35Cents]

Whether ST will post Shoelevy's email in the forum pages is still a questionmark. You will need to provide full details of yourself to "qualify" for consideration to have your email published.

[salivateforme]

Whether ST will post Shoelevy's email in the forum pages is still a questionmark. You will need to provide full details of yourself to "qualify" for consideration to have your email published.

Undeniably true. Plus, 'big brother' might have vested interests in maintaining 'big fallacy'...

shhh...we better use code words now...

[damienkee]

yo yo! i think u guys should print out the article, and paste on all the lfs in singapore.... and let all the newbie kno their mistake! hehehe!!! Dun waste time & money!

[Achilles Tang]

This reminds of SRC and the great Save Nemo campaign in 03.

I think we will have to educate the public again at Aquarama 05.

[mUAr_cHEe]

This reminds of SRC and the great Save Nemo campaign in 03.

I think we will have to educate the public again at Aquarama 05.

how about SRC and Kill "FRIED ERIC FRANCIS" campaign for 2005????

i will be glad to start it...

was so pissed reading the article that fried eric here made me lose my momentum when i am doing big business in the toilet on sunday....

felt like picking up the phone.. call the blardee bugger and give him a piece of my mind....

i mean... COM'ON!!! what kind of final year project is this???

[shoelevy]

hey seriously man, since so many of us feel this way about the article, about what was left out or what was written and especially about educating the public, shouldn't we come up with some kind of powerful action not targetted to anyone in specific but just to set things right?

perhaps a real letter via snail mail written by a powerful person from SRC (such as AT?) to straits times. with the fact that it was AT who wrote it, i believe its much more powerful than my email

frankly, i do not believe straits times would publish what i wrote anywhere in the papers any time because i believe all of us here can feel that the article was alittle too strong?

it would make SP and straits times lose alot of face...not just that, strats times would definitely consult SP on what i wrote and you know what SP would say la!

so if AT would do us a favour?...for the honour of reefers and for the lives of innocent marine creatures?

and muarchee!...if u ever call SP and tell them COM'ON!, what kinda final yr project is that!...i'll be behind u...

[Achilles Tang]

Hmmm.... some of you guys getting a little overheated, nein?

Take it easy with the personal comments especially. They are watching SRC since it was brought up a long time ago.

[shoelevy]

ok AT

thanks for pointing out

[steven]

Sorry to disturb your discussion. juz like to know when and where is Aquarama 05 ?

[blueheaven]

Check this out:

http://www.sp.edu.sg/estop/articles/2002/1...ificialreef.htm

Do you feel safe in putting the reef in the hands of this guy???!!!!

[35Cents]

In any other circumstances that will be dumping litter in the open sea. Really wish to see what species of caulerpa had grown on that 10X5 piece of junk.

[kokhui]

Hi bros,

Uhm, I saw the article on Strates Times and I was one of the guys that bought such a system. I bought it in Nov 05. You can see my tank threads in member stanks and specs.

I bought the tank initially brfore knowing much about marine husbandry and was initially attracted by claim that they are wasy to maintain and "No need to change water"! I had been in this hobby since Nov and have since learnt much more after joining SRC.

After I came to know SRC then I realised that I may have bought a wrong tank! I keep LPS and softies and few fishes and I feed very light for my fish and I do not encounter much problems with the tank yet.

However, I had since removed the bioballs and part of the bio-rings and converted one of the chamber into a refugium. I am also still using my Weipro 2013 skimmer.

As for water changing, I have only changed about 10% once since my first startupn Nov and the water is still very clear.

Not sure what you think?

[kokhui]

Sorry, should be I bought it in Nov 04, not 05

[damienkee]

hhhmmm...

mayb we should send an email to Singapore poly. Juz to let them know they r doing a big mistake. and hope they will come out an article to apology of their miss guided .

who have their email address?

[mUAr_cHEe]

below is the email i sent to mr francis, and the reply i got from him...

i wouldn't say i am very happy with the answer.

email obviously edited out, as althou as much as i wanna take the 2 fish tanks and stuff up his ######... he is also human, and i am sure he would want some privacy as well.

as to how i got his email, i am ashamed to say i was his student once.

From: ****@sp.edu.sg

Dear Desmond,

SP started this about 7 years ago for the child care centre when we created a biological system for them so that they need not change water every week. The system worked so well that the childcare principal told us that the water remained crystal clear and they did not have to clean it at all for more than a year. The tank that was designed by us in the article is actually two tanks (6' x 2' x 3') joined as one with a single sump system. It was then build by CR Aquarium in consultation with their expert as we shared and discussed knowledge.

The prototype tank is in the main office and witnessed by all our students, staff and visitors. It is indeed a zero water change and only needs the glass to be cleaned. However, we do not spend much on corals and buy cheap stuff. As I am sure you are aware, it is rather easy to break down the nitrites and nitrates. This is okay for fish and some soft corals to survive and thrive sufficiently. However, if you are keeping hard corals, there is a need to convert the nitrate to nitrogen gas for you are to let them really thrive well and even grow. A plenum system does part of it but for greater effectiveness, we need to have a nitrite reducer and cultivate the 'zero' oxygen bacteria unlike the other two others which are 'oxygen' rich bacteria.

As for the clam, it is healthy and does open very big (no supplements given though we should). We even have an octopus that has survived for quite a long time in the tank. May I suggest that you drop by CR Aquarium (showroom at 218 Tagore Lane) and have a look at the types of systems available and discuss with them. Our students are limited in their knowledge but linking with CR Aquarium thus makes a significant difference. I have two very solid systems at home of which I designed but I use very expensive German equipment to run my system. At SMA, we use the very cheap stuff but with specific reasons.

Brgds,

Frederick

To: ****@sp.edu.sg

Subject: Marine Fish Tank that does not need cleaning

Hi Capt. Francis,

I am writing to you in response to the article that the Sunday Times

published. Is the system designed in such a way that all the waste will

be broken down to "harmless nitrites and nitrates"? Are nitrates and

nitrites really harmless to marine life? I have been to fish shops

around and the clam in the article does not look as healthy as I have

seen others.

maybe you like to enlighten me on how the system works in detail? With

such a system, is it really true I do not have to change water for a

year or so? I am really interested in such a system. Will I be able to

keep corals like montiporas and acroporas? I really would like to have

my own Nemo home.

Thanks and Best Regards,

Desmond

[tineng]

Capt. Francis might have been mis-quote by the press....newspaper wanting to reach out to the vast majority of people tends to simplfied things to the extent of mis-information....maybe someone should direct the good capt to the forum to clearify.....

I remeber once long long time again, the press interview my mum's friend about a ###### couple staying opp. her flat....that auntie basically told them she saw nothing...but next day her photo came out in the newspaper with the heading something like '###### couple public display annoys neighbour'.....she was hopping mad when she saw the papers....