RAV-65's Reef Haven...

[RAV-65]

cant wait to see it done up!!!

Any pictures of the current area now?

Will try to post a pic of the area as soon as I get the chance to take the pic... I haven't even got keys to the house yet!! :D

[weileong]

2xMD100 estimated around 5000 l/h after becket injector but actual figures might varies depending on actual design of the skimmer.

You need a much higher sump turnover rate than 5000 l/h because your water that is returned from your sump to your main tank will mix with the water in your main tank so the water that gets feed into the skimmer will not be 100% unskimmed water, in the end DOC still gets broken down.

With that high flow going thru the sump, your sump should have properly design baffles to kill the bubbles, if not micro bubbles problems in your sump. If not you'll end up using sponge to kill the bubbles and this ends up high maintenance issues as they can be nitrate factories.

[AlfaRomeo]

Assuming I'm using 2xMX100, with minimal head-loss, the through-put to the skimmer should be around 10,000-12,000LPH...

Estimated water volume is around 1000L or about 250G ( rough estimate )

Estimate total turnover rate through the skimmer is around 10-12x per hour.

But these are estimates only, coz I'm not a statistically inclined person... so my estimates might be abit off...

However, if I use one MX-100, the figures would be halved...

Ok, lets assume u need to only put 2 mx-100 to get very effective skimming and thus you are pushing about 5000L/hr thru the skimmer in a body 8" x 48" (after weileong estimation of losses from injector). Can you help me calculate the dwell time of the water in the skimmer body?

Bearing in mind, proteins need a considerable time to attach to the bubbles.

Also with 5000L/hr of water being processed by the skimmer, do you really need 3x6500 pumps as return? More than 1/2 of the unprocessed water will just pass thru the sump and returned back to the main tank unprocessed.

It might help to study how Danano and Scarab has their setup done since its a proven design time and again.

[weileong]

Ok, lets assume u need to only put 2 mx-100 to get very effective skimming and thus you are pushing about 5000L/hr thru the skimmer in a body 8" x 48" (after weileong estimation of losses from injector). Can you help me calculate the dwell time of the water in the skimmer body?

Bearing in mind, proteins need a considerable time to attach to the bubbles.

Also with 5000L/hr of water being processed by the skimmer, do you really need 3x6500 pumps as return? More than 1/2 of the unprocessed water will just pass thru the sump and returned back to the main tank unprocessed.

Different concept of skimming, becketts are non-recirculating so they use bruteforce type skimming where they depends on high turnover rate for skimming.

You need to factor in the head lost from the OR6500 as well. Anyone had the flow chart? Let's say after headlost about 4000 l/h and so actual sump turnover is about 12,000 l/h. Just about there, 2x the skimmer turnover.

[RAV-65]

2xMD100 estimated around 5000 l/h after becket injector but actual figures might varies depending on actual design of the skimmer.

You need a much higher sump turnover rate than 5000 l/h because your water that is returned from your sump to your main tank will mix with the water in your main tank so the water that gets feed into the skimmer will not be 100% unskimmed water, in the end DOC still gets broken down.

With that high flow going thru the sump, your sump should have properly design baffles to kill the bubbles, if not micro bubbles problems in your sump. If not you'll end up using sponge to kill the bubbles and this ends up high maintenance issues as they can be nitrate factories.

Thanxs for the input bro...

Any good methods to return water direct to main tank?? like pretty tough without elevating the skimmer very very high up! And also got micro-bubbles problem...

Have taken the micro-bubbles into consideration when designing the sump... but still can never be 100% sure... any advise??

[RAV-65]

Ok, lets assume u need to only put 2 mx-100 to get very effective skimming and thus you are pushing about 5000L/hr thru the skimmer in a body 8" x 48" (after weileong estimation of losses from injector). Can you help me calculate the dwell time of the water in the skimmer body?

Bearing in mind, proteins need a considerable time to attach to the bubbles.

Also with 5000L/hr of water being processed by the skimmer, do you really need 3x6500 pumps as return? More than 1/2 of the unprocessed water will just pass thru the sump and returned back to the main tank unprocessed.

It might help to study how Danano and Scarab has their setup done since its a proven design time and again.

Wah... how to calculate dwell time??

Me no expert in this, which is why I insisted on a slightly taller skimmer body to "extend" the dwell time...

I tink when I'm not able to calculate such stuffs, better to be abit more kiasu...

[RAV-65]

Different concept of skimming, becketts are non-recirculating so they use bruteforce type skimming where they depends on high turnover rate for skimming.

You need to factor in the head lost from the OR6500 as well. Anyone had the flow chart? Let's say after headlost about 4000 l/h and so actual sump turnover is about 12,000 l/h. Just about there, 2x the skimmer turnover.

Phew.... seems like my kiasuism might be very useful after all... anyway, I tink after 2 years of reefing, I got the idea whereby, the more flow the better, the higher the exchange rate the better, the more light the better!!

But of coz not to "extreme" levels...

[weileong]

Thanxs for the input bro...

Any good methods to return water direct to main tank?? like pretty tough without elevating the skimmer very very high up! And also got micro-bubbles problem...

Have taken the micro-bubbles into consideration when designing the sump... but still can never be 100% sure... any advise??

oh well.. there goes the famous "prata" again lol....

Few simple rules.

1. Minimise/prevent micro bubbles formation coming down from overflow. (Yes it can be done).

2. Properly design baffles system in the sump. Actual design depends on actual flow thru, location of source of micro bubbles/skimmer return pipe, main overflow pipe, location of return pump.

You need to give more details on the actual layout of your stuffs, eg return pipe, skimmer, etc etc then maybe post in this thread and we can all discuss and help you. Sometimes even the tank maker might miss out some details.... once design is wrong then have to redo again which is very PITA. Micro bubbles problem will haunt you for many sleepless nights

[weileong]

Wah... how to calculate dwell time??

Me no expert in this, which is why I insisted on a slightly taller skimmer body to "extend" the dwell time...

I tink when I'm not able to calculate such stuffs, better to be abit more kiasu...

Dwell time = contact time.

Volume of water in skimmer main body divide by turn over rate.

Talking about these then reminds me of the days when I was discussing on my skimmer to replace my ex-beckett and talking to Alfa about all those stuffs.

You don't need to extend the height, just increase the overall volume in the skimmer will do. Too high skimmer also not easy for maintenance. You want to climb a ladder just to remove the collection cup?

[AlfaRomeo]

Its quite easy actually. Take the flow rate of the pump (5000 L/hr) and divide it by the volume of the skimmer body. This will give the skimmer turnover rate in number of times/hr (x).

Take 3600 (number of seconds in an hour) and divide it by x.

That will give you a dwell time.

[AlfaRomeo]

Dwell time = contact time.

Volume of water in skimmer main body divide by turn over rate.

Talking about these then reminds me of the days when I was discussing on my skimmer to replace my ex-beckett and talking to Alfa about all those stuffs.

You don't need to extend the height, just increase the overall volume in the skimmer will do. Too high skimmer also not easy for maintenance. You want to climb a ladder just to remove the collection cup?

True true. After all the lengthy discussions with Weileong, we decided on the Deltecs!

Higher doesnt mean better. Try to go for wider bodies. It actually improves the bombardment rate too.

[weileong]

Its quite easy actually. Take the flow rate of the pump (5000 L/hr) and divide it by the volume of the skimmer body. This will give the skimmer turnover rate in number of times/hr (x).

Take 3600 (number of seconds in an hour) and divide it by x.

That will give you a dwell time.

Must send you back to secondary school liao.

Should be

Volume of skimmer / turn over rate.

L / (L/hr)

[weileong]

True true. After all the lengthy discussions with Weileong, we decided on the Deltecs!

Higher doesnt mean better. Try to go for wider bodies. It actually improves the bombardment rate too.

There were some issues with the BK during that time. Despite the BK having overall better specs on paper we still decided to go with the deltec and we never look back after that.

[AlfaRomeo]

Must send you back to secondary school liao.

Should be

Volume of skimmer / turn over rate.

L / (L/hr)

No leh.

e.g

Feed rate : 5000L/hr

volume of skimmer : 50L

No of times/hr : 5000/50 = 100x/hr

Dwell time : 3600/100 = 36 secs

So you will know the exact skimmer turnover rate as well as dwell time in 1 single calculation.

Correct mah.

[AlfaRomeo]

Rav-65:

For more in-depth info on skimming:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/...ature/index.php

[weileong]

No leh.

e.g

Feed rate : 5000L/hr

volume of skimmer : 50L

No of times/hr : 5000/50 = 100x/hr

Dwell time : 3600/100 = 36 secs

So you will know the exact skimmer turnover rate as well as dwell time in 1 single calculation.b

Correct mah.

No lei, to get dwell time in one step calculation.

Take your example, turn over rate = 5000 l/h, volume of skimmer = 50 L

Dwell time = Volume of skimmer / turn over rate.

L / (L/hr) = 50 / 5000 = 0.01 hrs

= 0.01*3600

= 36sec.

So you will know the exact skimmer turnover rate as well as dwell time in 1 single calculation. Yours requires 2 step lol... actually both of us are right lar just yours 1 step more.

[mystery]

WOW FINALLY!! THE PROJECT BIG BIG AND BIG PROJECT IS COMFIRMED !!!

[Terryz_]

Hey bro... long time no see! Where you gone hiding??!!

Busy with school and new tank lor... lol...

[CalciumReef]

I think you can consider the sequence pumps Reef depot is selling.Spare parts are available and 1-1.With the setup you talking about the electrical bill is a big concern

[blueheaven]

Actually I rather dislike the huge bubbles that form at the top pf high becketts as they only result in mud sticking to the sides of the neck and not removed in any type of foam. And if a skimmer can't remove any visible, overflowing foam, then I do not see it as a good skimmer

As for the dual FR, I think Ian has something like that

Still awaiting for your new tank to be up. Do give me a beeb if you need help ya? I'll try to help in anyway I can

[weileong]

you could always tune the skimmate slightly wetter and that will solve the problem of the skimmate collecting on the neck.

[CalciumReef]

you could always tune the skimmate slightly wetter and that will solve the problem of the skimmate collecting on the neck.

Same sentiments. Bh you afraid your living room flood har..

[blueheaven]

Might help but if you imagine the bubbles travelling up so high plus the distace covered by the swirling, won't they become huge at the top?

That isn't what we want right?

[AlfaRomeo]

I could never control my beckett as much as I wanted and everytime I shut down the pumps and restarted it, I had to re-tune. Wat to do, Im not very good with tuning the beckett so it could never perform as well as the others that were running becketts. Nuthing wrong with the skimmer itself but more a case of User-error! hehehe

With the current skimmer I have, its set and forget and it will keep its setting no matter how many times I start/stop the needlewheels or feed pump. Very easy even for a fool like me to master.

RAV-65, considering the cost of the beckett and the 2 x md100 and the humongoes electrical draw and not mentioning the way noisy pressure-rated pumps.... Have u explore the possibility of using needlewheels instead?

[blueheaven]

Agree with Alfa on the needlewheels. Would have gotten one for myself if I can afford them. Think probably dual needlewheels would already be enough to suck up DOC in your tank