SantaMonica
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Posts posted by SantaMonica
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Creetin there is almost nothing there, so wait another week. But after than, clean every 7 days without missing.
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Wilson the yumas are probably enjoying more food in the water, since the skimmer is removing less.
Steven, go into the sponsor forums (or your local store), and ask if they sell UV sterilizers.
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They probably got Ick. An ultraviolet sterilizer will get rid of it.
Keep the bio balls.
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What gallons, rock, sand, number of fish, skimmer, do you have. Can you post pics?
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Update of the Day: New Research on Skimmers and Organics:
The whole point of scrubbers is that they remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are the things your test kits measure, and which are also the things that cause nuisance algae to grow. The other good point about scrubbers is that they leave Organics (food) in the water for the corals and fish and bacteria to eat (the bacteria also then become coral food.) People who prefer skimmers, however, say that skimmers removes Organics (food) before they break down into Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate.
I say, why not just feed less, instead of feeding more and then removing it with a skimmer? Let's look at it from their viewpoint. Their viewpoint is "Feed more, and remove the excess Organics (food) with the skimmer." Well, the current January 2009 issue of Advanced Aquarist just published extensive research into how well different skimmers remove Organics. They refer to Organics as "TOC", which is the Total Organic Carbon; TOC is the the combination of Dissolved Organic Carbon (DOC), and Particulate Organic Carbon (POC). Here is the article, and this is what it said:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2009/1/aafeature2
"In addition to some dissolved organics, small particulates and microbes (bacterioplankton, phytoplankton) can be removed at the air/water interface of the [skimmer] bubble as well (Suzuki, 2008). The skimming process does not remove atoms/molecules that are strictly polar and readily dissolve in water, such as some organics, salts, inorganic phosphate, carbonate, etc.
"The skimmer pulls out all of the TOC that it is going to remove by the 50-minute mark. Beyond that time point, nothing much is happening, and the TOC level doesn't change much.
"Thus, all skimmers tested remove around 20 - 30% of the TOC in the aquarium water, and that's it; 70 - 80% of the measurable TOC is left behind unperturbed by the skimming process. It may be possible to develop a rationalization for this unexpected behavior by referring back to Fig. 1. Perhaps only 20 - 30% of the organic species in the aquarium water meet the hydrophobic requirements for bubble capture, whereas the remaining 70-80%, for whatever reason, don't."
So, the strength of skimmers (since they don't remove Inorganics) is supposed to be that they remove Organics before they break down. But this research shows (once again) that they don't even remove the Organics. Here is additional 2008 reasearch that shows the same:
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Link does not work. Just search for a 23W 2700K CFL floodlight
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Steven yes get the warm 2700K.
I need to know more about your tank before deciding on the bio balls.
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Thought Of The Day:
A few folks have seen (or thought that they had seen) their skimmers "working less" or "producing less" after their scrubber started working. While this may have happened for other reasons, there is really no direct reason that a scrubber should cause a skimmer to produce less. This is because a skimmer and a scrubber remove different things: Scrubbers remove Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate, which are invisible, and which are the things that your test kits test for. Skimmers remove food (Organics). So having a scrubber remove the Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate really shouldn't cause a skimmer to remove any less food (unless you are feeding less). What MIGHT be happening, is that less Inorganic Nitrate and Inorganic Phosphate in the water means there is less food for bacteria (bacteria eat Organics AND Inorganics), and if there is less bacteria, then there is less to skim out.
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OK I see all the pics now.
Use 2700K. You can turn the skimmer off now if you want.
One important thing: It looks like you have a floss or foam pad on the bottom of the scrubber tank. If so, you need to remove all of it. All it does is trap food, and cause the food to rot and create nitrate and phosphate. You want all the food to circulation throughout the tank for the fish and corals to eat.
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Steven can you edit your post and delete the extra photos? You only need the first one.
Also if you can show pics of your lighting, that would help. 8000K is too high. Get a 2700K.
Two days is too soon. Takes three days to see anything at all.
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You can find 12" and 18" bulbs too, online. Just search for T5 2700K 12". So you'd want two screens, each 80 square inches, lit on both sides. I'd have two bulbs on each side, like mine.
For CFLs, one 23W (or bigger) 2700K on each side of each screen.
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Wilson it's great that it makes your overflow quiet, but, when the algae fills in, the screen holes will be totally blocked. No water will then get to the side with the light, and thus that side will bake and die. Well, ok, with the light that you have now, none of this will happen because nothing will grow
But do find a way to move the attachment of the screen, and do get those bulbs.Creetin for a spreader you can just tie-wrap a plastic or wood rod. And since your display is much smaller than I though, you can stick with the one bulb.
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One of the big benefits of a scrubber is that it keeps food in the water. Here is an update pertaining to this:
Part 1 of 7:
Taken from "Reef Food" by Eric Borneman:
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-07/eb/index.php
"Detritus, marine snow, particulate organic material, and suspended particulate matter are all names for the bits of "dirt" [food] that flow around the reef; material that is composed of fecal material, borings, algae, plant material, mucus, associated bacteria, cyanobacteria and other particles. Decomposers (mainly bacteria and associated flora and fauna) break down waste material in the water, on the reef, and primarily, in the soft sediments. The result of their presence and action is not only a food source in and of itself, but provides raw material for channeling back into the food chain, largely through the benthic algae and phytoplankton.
"Phytoplankton [food] are small unicellular algae, or protists, that drift in the water column. They may be very abundant in and around coral reefs, and they are capable of absorbing large amounts of organic and inorganic nutrients. [...] Some of the reef animals can feed directly on phytoplankton; many soft corals, some sponges, almost all clams, feather-duster worms, and other filter feeders utilize phytoplankton directly as a food source. Small animals in the water column, termed zooplankton [food], also utilize phytoplankton as a food source. For the smaller zooplankton, phytoplankton and bacteria are the primary food source.
"Both of the [photos not shown] are from reefs on the Great Barrier Reef, Australia. The left photo shows the clear "nutrient poor" (oligotrophic) waters of the outer reefs. The right photo is of an inshore "nutrient rich" lagoon reef off Townsville. Notice how coral coverage in both systems is high, and even though the green phytoplankton-filled lagoonal reef is nutrient rich, it supports a high density of Acropora.
"Coral reef food sources, then, are largely produced by the ocean. Bacteria, detritus, phytoplankton, zooplankton, small benthic fauna, mucus, and dissolved organic and inorganic material of various types and sizes are what comprise the majority of food on a coral reef.
"In aquaria, we are faced with several realities. Our phytoplankton and zooplankton populations are generally negligible to non-existent in comparison with coral reef communities. Those which do exist are either rapidly consumed without having a chance to reproduce, or they are rapidly removed or killed by pumps and filtering devices or suspension-feeders. Coral mucus, bacteria, detritus, larval benthos and other "psuedo-plankton" might be present in a reasonable amount if the water column were not stripped. On the other hand, dissolved organic and inorganic material [nitrate, phosphate] levels are frequently much higher than they are in the ocean. [...] Even very well maintained aquaria are generally found with much higher levels of nitrogen and phosphorous than wild communities. Even though many desirable organisms are able to utilize these nutrients, levels in most aquaria are very unnatural, and coral reefs under such conditions often wane or die - a process known as eutrophication.
"It is the lack of water column-based food that results in limited success with the maintenance of some desirable animals, such as crinoids, flame scallops, clams, certain corals, sponges, bryozoans, and many other invertebrates. Even the symbiotic (zooxanthellate) corals [like SPS] suffer, despite many obvious long-term successes with these animals.
"In terms of previously mentioned export mechanisms, it really does little good to be cultivating or adding more food material in the water column if it is all being rapidly removed by filtration devices. Live rock and sand provide abundant filtration, and some of the articles in past issues describing the set-up and use of unskimmed tanks are, in my experience, something that should be seriously considered. Algae Turf Scrubbers are also viable systems that provide low ambient water nutrient levels [of nitrate and phosphate] while maintaining higher amounts of food and particulate matter in the water. I also feel that if protein skimmers are used, they should probably be used in an intermittent fashion.
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Creetin, a very unique design for you too! What is the tank size? You are right, you need to spread the flow horizontally with a spreader bar or something.
How far is the bulb from the flowing water?
Can you put another bulb in there? Twice the light power is twice the nutrient removal.
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Wilson: Congrats on a relatively unique design! Can't tell about the flow since I don't know what it is, but you don't have control over it anyhow. The lighting, however, we will need to work on. The little desk light you use will not work; you need some real power to shine down in there. Get at least one, and if you are serious, two of these:
http://www.buylighting.com/23-Watt-R40-Com...p/tcp1r4023.htm
...along with a clip-on socket, and aim them down towards the middle of the screen. Your screen is small and one-sided, and therefore needs extra light power to make up for it. Also, I notice that you attached the screen to the top of the overflow passage; you need to move it to bottom, so that the water flows on the outside of the screen. When the screen fills with algae, light will only be on the backside of the screen; that's where the water needs to flow too. Use little hooks or something to hold the screen at the bottom of those acrylic cutouts. But most important: the lights!
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Today's Success of the Day, from OceanParks on the MFT site, had a good story to it. So here it is with his posts and the dates:
12/17: SantiMonica: I've also built and installed your screen. I am on day 5. I have the brown/green film and was wondering how long before you start to see a noticable drop in Nitrates? I have a 110 gal reef tank with fish and my Nitrates are at 20ppm. Thanks.
12/18: and what wattage bulb would you suggest (pc flood) would you recommend for better results?
1/5: Ok. So I read your thread and built a scrubber (a true hobbyist). I'm in the middle of week three and I've done 2 cleanings and one freshwater rinse. Nitrates began at 30ppm and are now down to 5ppm (with the help of a 40% water change) in this 110 gallon reef tank. I removed the skimmer and UV sterilizer to allow room for the scrubber. I will compose a more formal, descriptive posting in the near future on my setup - one that I hope you will use in your RESULTS postings. I am still trying to get a grip of this thread thing....it is my first one. Did you say that you were getting better results with a different light bulb. If so can you please specify? Thanks! Enjoy the pictures! What do ya think?
1/5: [Remove the filter socks.] Really about the socks? I'm afraid of too may particles floating around. I'll give it a try. Also, can I get the plant-grow bulb at Home Depot and is it in Flood form? I have the timer set for 16hrs on and 8hrs off, however, I get excited and want to turn them on early for (in my mind) faster results. Probably no better results? Ok. Off with the socks. Good idea. Is the grow-light a flood light like those pc flood light? Thanks for the help! I will send a full report and pictures in a few weeks!
1/7: I replaced my flood lights with 2700K "soft white" PC Flood lights today. Same wattage...they just seem dimmer. It's that red light. Hope it works better.
1/12: I spent some time reviewing the begining of this thread and noticed that most of the pictures showed bright green thick mats of algea on the screen. I am not getting that after 5 weeks. I am getting dark brown/red stuff and it's only about 1/4" combined. [The stealthy high-nutrient black/brown algae that must be removed right away.] I did use some of the brown/red stuff to seed the new screen when I built it. Should I rebuild the screen and seed it with some hair algae from the tank? [not now.] Also, at the bottom of my sump, beneath the screen there is red/brown slime forming (see picture). Should I remove/treat for this or can it be concidered benefitial? [leave it.]
1/12: Here is 5.1 oz of the black oil (I read from your other site). Funny enough, under the layer of black stuff there was some bright green algae. Any thoughts on that? [that's why it needs to be removed right away.]
1/20: CLEAR!!!!!! My scrubber has been up since December 18th and tonight the Nitrate test (Nutrafin) read clear indicating 0 nitrates! Awesome. Thank you SantiMonica. Awesome. 0 Nitrates on the Salifert Test too.
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Measure how much water is currently coming down the overflow. This is easy to figure out by counting how many seconds it takes your overflow to fill a one-gallon jug:
60 seconds = 60 gph
30 seconds = 120 gph
15 seconds = 240 gph
10 seconds = 360 gph
8 seconds = 450 gph
5 seconds = 720 gph
Your pic looks to me like you could fit a 12" (300cm) wide screen. If so, it would require 12 X 35gph = 420gph. If your overflow is flowing about this much or less, then just "L" (not a T) it to your screen. If your overflow is flowing much more than 420, then "T" it so you will have less going to the screen.
Screen Width-----Gallons Per Hour (GPH)
1" 35
2" 70
3" 105
4" 140
5" 175
6" 210
7" 245
8" 280
9" 315
10" 350
11" 385
12" 420
13" 455
14" 490
15" 525
16" 560
17" 595
18" 630
19" 665
20" 700
How tall should the screen it be? That is determined by how much screen area you need, which is determined by how many gallons you have. Try to get one square inch of screen (lit both sides) for every gallon. Must be lit on both sides.
Will there be alot of water splashing out from the pipe that connect with the screen since it's a return pipe?There will be no splashing at all, IF you build the slot right. Test it in the shower or bathtub first. You may have to build a few pipes/slots in order to get it right. Or have someone do it for you.
As for the lights, thinking of using two 18W energy saving bulbs via chip on light holder placed at the front of the screen.Use at least 23W 2700K bulbs. One on each side.
As for the screen, thinking of using 2 layers of those hard plastic/fibre mesh sold in DIY shopYep two layers of screen is better than one. You can use thread to tie them together.
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Mine or John? Mine are zeros.
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Scrubber FAQ 2.0 is now up:
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That light should be fine.
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Success of the Day:
"Mxett" on the MD site: "I installed a simple [scrubber] over my refugium. It uses an old plastic fruit juice container and a syphon [which makes a surge device] to dump 2 litres onto a white plastic chopping board which lays horizontally over the top of the refugium. A reflective CFL [bulb] is situated just 10cm above this board. The surge occurs every 30 seconds, lasting for 15 seconds. Growth on the [scrubber] has been excellent. Harvesting the algae is performed every 1 to 2 weeks per SM's instructions. [should be weekly
] N & P have never been detectable in my system, BUT I have always struggled with a very persistant nuisance red algae! It threatened to overtake my entire tank in the months before installing this [scrubber], which is only a modest size for my 800 litre cube. Anyway, after 3 months of using the [scrubber] I can confidently say I have little to none of this red algae left! My purple tange eats it and always has, but with less nutrients available to it, it has just withered away, and he just finishes it off. Overall a great success over a difficult pest. Thanks SM for providing the inspiration and idea to create, install and use such a cheap, easy and effective natural filter." -
dominik: I'm not aware of anyone who has even built a planted tank version. It would only be needed on one with fish, however, and even then, only if the plants themselves don't do enough filtering.
maty: Yes that will work much much better. What K rating is the light? And like Iceman said, if you can put a light on the other side, it will help greatly, even if just a clip-on bulb like this:
http://www.buylighting.com/23-Watt-R40-Com...p/tcp1r4023.htm
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Well replacing RODI/RO/Distilled with tap is not really one of the benefits of a scrubber, especially with a reef. But you are correct, algae does remove a lot of the impurities of tap. If your tank is in a position where you can experiment, then you might give it a try.
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As for the wrapping, it's been recently discovered that the screen-wrapped-around-pipe design will clog up and stop working when the algae gets thick. It grows heavily where the screen is wrapped at the top, and blocks further flow from going down the screen. Instead the flow starts going out the ends, completely missing the entire screen, thus killing what algae was previously growing on screen. It affects different screens in varying amounts; the higher the lights are (thus closer to the wrap), the more it clogs. One solution is to use a one-inch light shield along the pipe, to keep light off the top part. Another is to cut holes along the top (but even they will clog eventually). Best solution is to use the screen-in-slot method. Just practice building one a few times. Or get someone else to build it for you.
Automatic Continuous Feeder
in DIY Forum
Posted
Automatic Continuous Feeder
Part 1 of 5
Here is my solution to the problem of trying to feed continuously. My application was for feeding NPS corals, but this will work for any corals, and most fish. Here is a pic and vid of the food being sprayed into the display:
Video:
Advantages of continuous feeding:
Overall: The ocean generally feeds it's corals continuously (although maybe more at night), so duplicating this allows the corals (and some fish, especially tangs) to eat more like they do in the wild.
Less rotting: When you manually feed once or twice a day, much of the food gets past the fish and corals, and rots in the rocks and sand. When you feed continuously, the fish and corals get most of the food before it settles. So you get to feed the same amount, but the fish and corals get more, and less rots.
Keep pumps running: Many people turn their return pump off while feeding, so that food does not go to the sump. This is not necessary with continuous feeding, since most of the food will be eaten in a few seconds, and thus won't even make it to the overflow. So pumps last longer.
Keep skimmer running: Many people also turn their skimmer off while feeding. Again this is not necessary; food removed by the skimmer is being constantly replaced by the feeder (you may have to feed a little more, however, to make up for it.)
Mandatory for NPS: Non Photo Synthetic corals must have as close to continuous feeding as possible. Some of the more difficult NPS will actually close up if you feed too much at one time; thus, small continuous amounts are the only way to keep them alive.
No forgotten feedings: While not critical to fish, some corals (and certainly NPS) may not open again if you miss too many feedings.
More accurate: Since the feeder is automatic, you know for sure how much you are feeding, and how much you have fed. This makes it easy to compare coral growths (as well as nuisance algae growth) while varying the feeding amounts.
Free time: I thought that I'd miss feeding, but I don't. I still get to watch the feedings (for me, every hour), I just don't have to stand up and do them.
The main requirements of the feeder were:
1. Tiny feeding amounts: As little as 0.1 milliliters at a time. The foods that I'm using (Reed's Phytofeast and Reed's Rotifeast for the NPS corals; Reed's Arctipods for the other corals and for the fish) are very concentrated. Reeds recommends that the foods not be diluted in water; so very very small amounts of the concentrate must be fed each time.
2. Adjustable feeding amounts: In order to experiment with how much can be fed before problems arise (like nuisance algae), it needs to be pushbutton-adjustable. If you are feeding non-concentrated foods like melted mysis cubes (1 cube = 3ml), you could easily adjust it to a higher amount.
3. Adjustable feeding schedule: As short as every few minutes, or as long as every couple of hours. Or just plain continuous.
4. Ability to feed very thick liquids, including melted mysis cubes.
5. Refrigeration: Would keep the liquid chilled at all times, with an adjustable temperature as low as freezing (but would not freeze it).
6. Capacity: Would hold enough to feed an entire month without refilling.
7. Would sit on top of tank, so that the food would go directly into the display. This means the unit would need to be small, quiet, and have a decent appearance.
8. Reliability: It would not fail (and thus not starve the tank.)
9. Mechanically Safe: No possibility, at all, of all the food being fed at once.
10. Electrically safe: Splashed water, condensation, or salt creep would not shock anything, and would not cause failure.
11. Settling: Larger pieces of food should not settle to the bottom of the food container.
12. Cost: This is subjective, but for me the ability to keep NPS corals, and to not have to feed again for an entire month, means that I'd be willing to spend several hundred dollars.
Here is my solution: An electronic wine chiller, connected to an enteral feeding pump, sitting on the top of the tank:
A "digital" or "electronic" wine chiller is a thermoelectric chiller that does not use a compressor; instead it only has a fan. Some models actually have a digital readout, but the one that worked best for me does not. An "enteral" feeding pump is a peristaltic medical pump designed to feed patients who cannot eat; it pumps liquid food directly into the intestine. (Note: An enteral pump is different from an "IV" pump).
Here is the "Wine Bottle Cooler/Warmer", as sold on Ebay:
Sample ebay listing (item=260314363628)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=260314363628
Here is the Zevex EnteraLite Infinity feeding pump, as sold on Ebay:
Sample ebay listing (item=320333085006)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=320333085006