patricklhc Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Hi guys, for the past 2 weeks I have been having cyano issue popping out here and there on my sandbed. Although mixture of cyanoClean, coralsnow and A balance helps, but it doesn't solve the root. Whenever I stop dosing them cyano appeared again. So I reduce my zeobak dosing from 3 times a week to 1 time half the dosage and increase Zeostart dosage by another 50%. Effect is not as instant as the combination of CC,CS and AB but cyano did show improvement, gradually it gets lessen and no new area spotted with new cyano patch on the sandbed. I will continue this method until cyano totally disappeared and resume back normal dosing of zeobak and Zeostart Hope this will help guys having trouble dealing with cyano outbreak Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member illumnae Posted June 30, 2015 SRC Member Share Posted June 30, 2015 I remember reading in Evolutionz's thread that he used Microbe-Lift Special Blend, and that seemed to help in getting rid of cyano too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Supporter ReDDeviLs Posted June 30, 2015 SRC Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2015 not sure about zeovit system, but i battle it using rowaphos and constant water change as well as adding more flow. Quote [ ] [ ] Reef Reefing Reefed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklhc Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 My understanding is the causes of cyano is due to excessive dead bacterial and this allow another stains of bacterial to flourish right ? In this case cyano bacterial. Personal view is because we are dosing more bacterial but not enough carbon to sustain them thus causing a imbalance. I'm also trying to adjust my bacterial and carbon dosing to get the magic dose amount Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member illumnae Posted June 30, 2015 SRC Member Share Posted June 30, 2015 I don't think cyano is caused by excessive dead bacteria. From what I know, cyano is actually caused by excess phosphates coupled with low nitrates which allows cyano (which is a photosynthetic bacteria that doesn't necessarily need the redfield ratio of nutrients to survive - because it can supplement with photosynthesis) to flourish. I think using rowa and water change to reduce phosphates as well as adding more flow (cyano does not like high flow conditions) is effective in countering cyano, as is introducing other strains of bacteria (that also may not rely on the redfield ratio) to ultimately outcompete the cyano for the excess phosphate. I think dosing nitrates will also help since it creates available nutrients for existing bb to outcompete the cyano as well, but I understand that there is extreme reluctance amongst reefers to introduce nitrates into reef systems (even though the ultimate result is still low nitrates with the added benefit of reducing phosphates as well). Dosing of nitrates works very well in freshwater systems to combat cyano. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklhc Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 I did a search online, however nothing much mention about po4. Nevertheless, I know reducing po4 helps. What I don't understand and wanted to ask is assuming cyano is not due to excessive bb died off, why is it that my method now works? Reduce bb dosing and increase carbon? Some online information says cyano uses carbon as their food sources as well Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member illumnae Posted June 30, 2015 SRC Member Share Posted June 30, 2015 I've done some reading up, and I think some of what I previously posted is not entirely correct. From my understanding, cyanobacteria is an opportunistic photosynthetic bacteria that is able to strike due to its ability to create food for itself via photosynthesis. Being opportunistic, I believe that cyanobacteria only competes well in environments that are bad for other strains of bacteria. Once conditions are good for other bacteria to thrive, cyanobacteria will start to die off. The strength of cyanobacteria is that it is able to obtain required nitrates and carbon by directly fixing nitrogen and carbon dioxide. This means that even in the absence of nitrates and carbon (2 of the 3 essential items needed for bacteria), they can create their own nitrates and carbon from the dissolved gasses in the water. This gives them a huge benefit over other bacteria, that will cease to reproduce once nitrates and carbon become limiting in the water. They are able to create food using phosphate alone together with dissolved nitrogen and carbon dioxide casses. This may explain why dosing additional carbon without adding extra bacteria works for you - your limiting nutrient may be carbon, and without adding extra bacteria to compete with existing bacteria for the added food, your existing bacteria is multiplying and thriving and thus outcompeting the cyanobacteria in your tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklhc Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 I've done some reading up, and I think some of what I previously posted is not entirely correct. From my understanding, cyanobacteria is an opportunistic photosynthetic bacteria that is able to strike due to its ability to create food for itself via photosynthesis. Being opportunistic, I believe that cyanobacteria only competes well in environments that are bad for other strains of bacteria. Once conditions are good for other bacteria to thrive, cyanobacteria will start to die off. The strength of cyanobacteria is that it is able to obtain required nitrates and carbon by directly fixing nitrogen and carbon dioxide. This means that even in the absence of nitrates and carbon (2 of the 3 essential items needed for bacteria), they can create their own nitrates and carbon from the dissolved gasses in the water. This gives them a huge benefit over other bacteria, that will cease to reproduce once nitrates and carbon become limiting in the water. They are able to create food using phosphate alone together with dissolved nitrogen and carbon dioxide casses. This may explain why dosing additional carbon without adding extra bacteria works for you - your limiting nutrient may be carbon, and without adding extra bacteria to compete with existing bacteria for the added food, your existing bacteria is multiplying and thriving and thus outcompeting the cyanobacteria in your tank. If this is so, dosing of bacterials in both zeovit/FM system wouldn't be necessary isn't it? Or user just have a find the magic number of bb and carbon dosing to individual tank environment ? So that the required bb stains remain sufficient(won't go into a mono culture state) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member illumnae Posted June 30, 2015 SRC Member Share Posted June 30, 2015 Maybe that's why the new FM Zeolight system doesn't include bacteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklhc Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Maybe that's why the new FM Zeolight system doesn't include bacteria Haha that's a nice one for me to do some thinking. Whatever the case I will continue my method to see if it really works at the end of the day lol. However, understanding the nature of it and solve the root will be a more effective way and also to minimize recurrence. Thanks for sharing your views and knowledge Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resser Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 So I reduce my zeobak dosing from 3 times a week to 1 time half the dosage and increase Zeostart dosage by another 50%. You mean the other way around (see Zeovit bible)? This is a compilation of how much Zeostart3 the gurus are dosing. Cyano gets a huge kickstart and thrives on carbon source (Biopellet, Vinegar, Vodka, Zeostart3, NoPox, etc). Especially if the tank started on dead sterile unhealthy rockwork, and carbon source is added without being taken up by quick multiplying heterotrophic bacteria (Zeobac, Polyplab Genesis, Ultrabio, etc). 3 Quote Materialism :- He who dies with the most toys, wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcoVan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Just keep doing water changes in my opinion helps to wean back on the cyanobacteria population - you can never kill or fully eliminate cyanobacteria. They are essential to our systems and only an outbreak makes them undesirable. Quote Happy Reefing, Marc J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuEl Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Other factors also contribute to cyanobacteria or nuisance algae issues, not just the commonly blamed phosphates and nitrates. Sometimes the inherent problem lies within the salt mix itself, changing brands will be able to tell after a few water changes. Quote Always something more important than fish. http://reefbuilders.com/2012/03/08/sps-pico-reef/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patricklhc Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 You mean the other way around (see Zeovit bible)? This is a compilation of how much Zeostart3 the gurus are dosing. Cyano gets a huge kickstart and thrives on carbon source (Biopellet, Vinegar, Vodka, Zeostart3, NoPox, etc). Especially if the tank started on dead sterile unhealthy rockwork, and carbon source is added without being taken up by quick multiplying heterotrophic bacteria (Zeobac, Polyplab Genesis, Ultrabio, etc). Now that totally make sense now haha I was still puzzled it reducing bak and increase is the correct way to do it haha. Thanks I shall try to reduce bak dosing to see how it progress Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chercm Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 You mean the other way around (see Zeovit bible)? This is a compilation of how much Zeostart3 the gurus are dosing. Cyano gets a huge kickstart and thrives on carbon source (Biopellet, Vinegar, Vodka, Zeostart3, NoPox, etc). Especially if the tank started on dead sterile unhealthy rockwork, and carbon source is added without being taken up by quick multiplying heterotrophic bacteria (Zeobac, Polyplab Genesis, Ultrabio, etc). Nice one ! Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Humble tank : Size: 4x2.5x2 ft - Display Equipment : Return 1 : Ecotech marine L1 Return 2 : Ecotech marine M1 CR : Skimz CM122 - Caribsea extra course media with Grotech magnesium Light : ATI 8x54W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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