pacificbetta

2) Woon Ming <- removed from list since I was informed that the order has been retracted. Anybody else?

The point is YOU are creating yet another source of corals. YOU, with little expertise in handling such items, actually attempt to harvest and sell these items. YOU, despite having it highlighted to you, continue to think it is perfectly ok to create extra damage. I am a man of action. I vote with my wallet. And for the record, until YOU stopped all forms of commercial harvesting of corals, YOU and the following people, who have contributed to your operations, are not welcomed at 1 balestier rd, there are a lot of other shops that you can turn to. I may not recognise everyone, but those that I do recognise, I will mean what I say. 1) Golden Tooth 2) Woon Ming 3) Anthony 4) Cedric 5) nicky30092002 6) Joop? 7) Hecter 8) Kais 9) nqh7 10) Bwilly 11) Reefy 12) Ancelot 13) lima16_sg 14) Alvy 15) Ruel

Dear all, I got a few messages on using a capacitive load to compensate for the bulb loading. Rather than exaplinging the same thing a few times over, let me do it once by posting here. Unfortunately, I caused a few misunderstanding. The correction is being connected on the power grid side. There is nothing much we as end user can do, unless you pretty much have a dedicated power grid. (Just like AT with his 1600W, just kidding)

Paiseh hor, I also return a lot to sch already. I really do not understand what you are trying to say, possibly using some dc voltage to chop a ac sinusoid thereby controlling the perceived power to some load. The description is too vague. Maybe this weekend at the chalet, you bring paper and pen to the chalet and we scratch our heads together? I went back to the postings and re read them, I think here is where we drifted apart. Just for the kicks to piss phang a little There should be some NTU EEE 2 or 3yr students here, pls correct me if I go off somewhere here. ac voltage: V = VsinA Because most of or lights and motors represent an inductive load to the power grid, they are represented by Z=R+jL. The current draw will then by I = V/Z = [V/sqrt(R^2 + L^2)] * arctan -L/R The magnitude of the current draw is therefore increase to V/sqrt(R^2 + L^2) if the current is totally uncompensated. However, under optimal compensation, current draw can reduced to V/R. How to do it is to add a suitable capacitor such that the C exactly compensates the L (which was what I assumed was done, hence my reading differed from the BLV specs). It is possible to overcompensate with too large a C and actually increases power consumption. What exact value to use, ask BLV.

Actually, Qian hu is the one tomake it happen. The rest merely wait for things to happen.

What lao, kena suan liao. Hon, you are wrong, the formula holds also for ac sinusoids. Except that instead of plain I, we use I sinA. What you want to know about phase angle, I may help? Phase angle refers to "A" above. Don't understand?

Salah? I thought P = I*I*R, and since V = I*R, then P = I*V Shit man, if this is wrong, I have speced alot of my designs wrongly liao. I am getting very confused, I said the same things as you, so why your correct and me salah?

Pls take note of the different species, I represent betta splendens, and will not want to cause any grief and angish to our lovely comet brother. Lets put it this way, *IF* you have to buy, which is the less sinful way? Documented or otherwise? You decide. Unfortunately, yes. Even myself is very guilty of this charge. However I do not see an alternative hobby right now. We all are guilty of straining the environment by trying to pamper to our perverted idea of fun in keeping some fishes in a glass tank. Sometimes we try to atone for our sins by pretending to teach others how fragile this reef environment is. I do not understand. Strictly speaking, the very fact that we are alive means that we have to be exploiting the environment in some way. What I am advocating is moderating this exploitation, not total non-exploitation. I hope you are not suggesting that since I have been so vocal, I should go spill my guts somewhere

I said: Wattage divided by Voltage equals Current. Plain Power = IV rule.

You can do better than that. Take this part offline? This thread is making me very much of a asshole already, dun want to make it a double ######.

1. How about strongly discouraging the exchange of information on non-certified lifestocks, both publicly and privately? I am sure you are more than creative enough to do that, if you want to do so. 2. Or do it the entirely opposite way, strongly encourage all to report all new livestock arrivals, and let authorities handle the rest. It may make you extremely unpopular, but it did solve the problems as demonstrated in the past. Though I remembered some fish with a tail scalpel did get threatened Either way, I find the present system of using *** so ridiculous. It is making us all part of a bigger conspiracy. At the same time, build a little awareness. Pacificdude

Wattage divided by 220V will give you the current draw in amperes. This does not include the power drawn by the ballast, nor the current surge during startup, just current during routine use.

I respectfully disagree. Buying livestocks that are documented, is still IMO better than buying livestocks that are not. Even if you want to question how the documents are procured in the first place. Unless, not buying livestocks is another option, in which case that would be most ideal, but right now I think we need to bound our discussion scopes a little right. I do not want to be a super duper "keep no pets" activists. Yes, I agree. The CITES will FIX the total amount of resources that can be exploited. If implemented fully, and obeyed universally, it will creatic a perfectly inelastic supply curve, which means regardless of demand by the aquarium trade, the total supply is still the same. The problem is that out-of-quota supply by passes this model. We as a forum that claim to want to build reef awareness, should not in anyway find excuses to do otherwise. I am more against unmoderated and uncontrolled exploitation. However since total non-exploitation is out, at least to me, than it seems moderated exploitation is the only avenue left, IMO. Unless you can point me to yet another path? As to why I find the CITES politics out of bounds of this discussion, it is because I do not see how we can influence that, and since we cannot influence that, maybe we can put our energies to better use by applying it on something that we can improve?

You cannot ensure that the CITES quotas are correct. But I am pretty sure if we continue to encourage people to flout this quota, we definitely are creating a bigger threat to depleting the oceans. Agree, but there is concrete evidence that the CITES quotas are being reduced every year. The problems are always with enforcing the CITES. If everyone were to follow the quota requirements and let market set the prices, then it will make sense. If not, a lower quota is going to be just another number. What that happens on the CITES politics is outside the scope of this discussion. What that matters is that you, as a end consumer, do not encourage further unmoderated exploitation.

Phang, please look carefully before you frag hor. Don't frag the wrong piece ...... LOL Have a frag time.

Day, you can be very very sure I know how the cites proceedure works. Except for the farm operators who surfed into this site, I dare say I know this industry better than anyone else in this forum. Now, I have said these before, and I am going to say this again. The CITES permits do not add significantly to the costs of the corals. This is a myth just like "net caught fish cost a lot more than cynaide caught ones, so we do not ship net caught ones in". The CITES proceedure is cheap to businesses. Of course we will then ask why do CITES stocks always cost more? The key point is that the prices of the corals themselves of those exporters capable of issuing CITES permits are much higher. Eg (numbers may not be representative of actual prices) Cost of a acropora by CITES export A is US$20/pc + US$1 for CITES = US$21 total Cost of a acropora by non-CITES export B is US$7 = US$7 total Of course it is ideal if we have a company C that has a cost structure US$7/pc + US$1 for CITES = US$8 total Unfortunately, such companies do not exist. Which brings us to "Then again, the farms will just sell those corals. even if AVA comes and check or watever, they can just produce any old cities which states the type of corals and they can say it just leftover stock which they did not sell finish. " <Allowing me to digress a little, but this is where I always have very different opinions with AT. Despite all claims that he ,his forum is basically used as a platform to pass information to assist in such stock clearances. Yes, there are rules in place to not do it publicly, but the information being passed around in private is mind-boggling. Yes, I know it is not possible for him to block all such activities from happening, but I will really like to see him and the forum at least make a little more effort to curb such message. Trying even when you knowingly cannot succeed completely, is very different from not trying at all.> Coming back to where we drifted off, so we see a scenario of people who knowingly help this activity continue. Again, we can ask ourselves, where did these people err, after all they are merely doing something to lessen their personal financial burden. Before we answer that question, lets look at this statement: The free market is a good policy, I like it too. The problem is that too often, left to your own, men often overdo it. The ocean is once seen as a pool of unlimited resources. You can catch as many fishes you want from it, it will regenerate itself. Unfortunately, this is not true any more. But the sea, being a communal property, where the things are coowned, it is there just for taking. There is always a feeling of "If I don't remove that piece of coral, and make something out of it, someone else will". This is the basis for control, that is the reason for CITES quota. And this is where I am very unhappy with the way you perceive things. If you have gone to collect the specimens for yourself and yourself only, I have nothing against that. After all, the typical human being probably harms the reefs more by consuming seafood than by catching a few snails from the coast. It is all part of the damage oneself does to the environment. You have to spend the effort to go down to the collection site and remove a few snails and some sea lettuce, even some coral pieces, so be it, I never complained about that. But now things are different, you are going down to pick up 100 snails. Yes, it is still a demand and supply situation, but you are tweaking the supply curve too much and making things even more unsustainable. This is the same argument that I will use for not supporting non-CITES stocks. It is perfectly alright to culture snails and sea lettuce. In fact it is preferred, as far as I am concerned. But are you saying that you have been breedign 100 snails every 2-3 weeks, and growing them (up to a 50cents or 20 cents or 10 cents). I can give you the benefit of doubts over a few "batches" since it can be a backlog from previouse productions, but really I do not see how you can manage this growth rate in the long run. Sea lettuce...... I have grown it myself, and how fast it can go. For someone who claims to be feeding it to his own aquarium, you surely grow them fast. If it is wild collected, admit it, let the forum moderator decide if it should be allowed. Passing off wild collected things as home cultured is disgusting. Yes, I understand AT has no way of verifying wild collected or not, but I will like to hear from you again, are ***ALL*** the trochus snails and sea lettuce you are selling, 100% home cultivated? ocean, I am in the hobby, and have no intention in the foreseeable future to be against myself. Last but not least, bad analogy about G Bush religion. No offences intended. I apologise if I disturbed any muslim forumers here.

Last I heard, it is coming soon to Singapore.

Nah, I am not a conservationalist. I am just against uncontrolled and often senseless exploitation of nature's resources. If I am a greenpeace activist, then G Bush is a muslim in disguise. I am also very sensistive to claims that are blatantly contradicting to their stated mission. Last statement not directed at you AT, . My point is that for every butterfly that died in our tank, every tang that went down with ich, every sea fan that died of starvation, the hobbiest must learn something from that experience. It should not be treated as just another $5 wasted. But I did, just that the forum's topics keep getting busted. *Intentional poke at AT, LOL*

Oooh, lagi better, mata dealing with things that he should not deal in. twice the penalty!!!! Day, you must be reading this, speak up! I must be bored at work today man..... posting so much nonsense. And best of all, just realised I am some spineless creature -> a sea cucumber......

Ummm, I think it is about time we snap out of the loop of following the trends of others and develop one of our own culture. Yellow tangs are yucks in US, cool in Europe. Purple tangs are boring in Germany but expensive in US. Just a guess, the americans must be salivating at our yumas although we are ogling at their floridas. See the trend max? It is all perceived.

IMHO, this forum should take very serious steps to educate the public on the importance of preservation and conservation. It is bad enough that we are subverting one of nature's greatest gifts for our simple egoistic wants of a glass tank at home. It is bad enough that the forum expressively prohibits people from *publicly* discussing about the water goods, yet provide a platform for them to discuss in private what is coming in. Maybe it is clear to you where exactly is the line, and where they are they, but to me, I have never understood why the lines are where they are now. But I am digressing...... I am glad this forum is largely conscientious and have taught many to respect the lifes of their pets. But if we look at http://www.sgreefclub.com/forum/index.php?...opic=3742&st=15 I see a mixture of people who contributed to the forums, and also some who are simply in for a good deal. Knowing the end consumers, I think there is nothing much we can do to stop them from getting a good deal. But I fear that such a blatant display of ease of collection, and demand will spark another flood of people collecting items from the local waters. Now, it is arguable that we all are buying something that is wild collected anyway, but the big difference is that we pay for the items from the shops, at least there is some form of moderation there. But if the forum is used to teach others where to collect such items, we may jolly well end up making the same mistakes that our neighbours did. That was how cynaide collection and dynamite fishing started. These "things" are free, communal property not owned by anyone in particular, so if I need only 5 snails, and am already at the collection site, I will pick 10, just in case some die on the way home, the extras can always throw in to the dustbin. Since I am there, and the nice big brown acro colony is nearby, why don't I snap off a few branches and see if I can sell in the forum. If I cannot sell them, just thrown them away, no loss to me. Things may escalate from here. Now we only have a "day", who knows when a "nite" or a 3rd or 4th party will turn up offering equally good services? I seriously hope those who read these realise what your purchase of a 50cts snail can possibly mean, what it can possibly encourage. What steps to take? How about taking the first step and having a nice talk to our young day here, (his hp is published in public domain anyway), and talking to those who ordered from him. Maybe you can persuade him to stop demonstrating the commercial viabilty of wild collection, he don't need it for his next meal anyway. An outright bann of such posting will be less effective than if you can educate and persuade him yourself. After all the under table transactions of commercial PMs masurading as lobangs is too many already. My $0.02

I personally do not believe that this alone will be enough. Would have prefered if the forum take steps to retify things. But nevertheless, I respect your stand on this and repectfully bows out of this discussion.

I do not pretend to be a saint, besides, I have always admitted that some of my opinions have been very dubious. So, 1. Is harvesting lettuce and snails from the sea and reselling ON A REGULAR BASIS "commercial" or not? 2. Given that someone posted a webpage on sale of corals of a very dubious source, what is the reefclub stand on this? Does saying you do not support it, but still not censor the thread mean anything? Or is it really important that affordability of aquatic pets be more important than anything else? 3. Does the fact that this person not require such sources of profiteering to make a living grant him/her "hobbyiest" status? Anyway, it is your forum at the end of the day, I acknowledge that. I am just stating my 2 cents as someone seeing something I don't like. Esp on people who leverage on the forum's access to the market without making any contribution, nor intend to make any future contribution. The same tacit acknowledgement that "such things exist" have already killed the comradeship over a few other forums, are we supposed to take the chance this same thing will not happen here? Or is there something measures being taken that I am not aware of?

so you will not get bombed when parking near AT's house again Final_Bird.zip

There is a huge difference between 1. Buy coral(s) from a lfs/farm, don't like it, sell it off. AND 2. Pick from the sea (either by oneself) or through 3rd parties, sell it and pretend that it is not commercial. There is also a difference between 1. Buying a coral, grow it, then break off a piece and sell it as a frag AND 2. Picking a coral from the sea, break it into smaller pieces and selling it as a frag. In the industry, this is called a "chop" shop. OR 3. Buying a colony from a lfs/farm, break it up into smaller pieces and selling the smaller pieces for a profit. I totally look down on those who practise options other than (1) and yet pretend to be doing society a service. Day, while I am not one of those that pointed out this thread to AT, I seriously hope that you get into trouble with the law. I hate parasites, especially those who pretend to tread on a moral high ground. Too bad this forum is getting flooded with so many of these slugs these days, and admin is not doing enough to stop them. I get more and more disappointed every time I step in.