Almost new tank - many qn to ask

[bivi]

Hi all,

My hubby got this fish tank in our house. I enjoyed looking at them until one by one they started to die!! Didn't realise that I am so affected by the death so decided to find out more abt this Marine Fish Tank.

So my knowledge is 1/100, please guide me along. I don't know much abt the jargon or the names of the stuff inside the tank but here's a pic of the tank as of yesterday.

Dunno the name of the fishes but I noticed a pair of fish keep hiding under the rocks and sometimes rub their bodies against the sand. What does it mean? The last time we had a pair of fish that had this symptom, they died the next day.

We bought new fish food today, Tetra A I think is the name. But when we put it in the tank, the food seems to be too big to be eaten by them, so most of them are lying in the sand.

Sooo many qn... Btw, any good book to read for basic beginner? Can i get the book from Borders or need to go to fish shop?

Er, our budget... is very minimum as my hubby and I are new couple (read: lotsa debt to pay for installments )

[andylee]

Hi,

I came across this book before in Kinokuniya. It's abt this reefkeeping hobby by Red Sea.

Alternatively, u can do a search in this forum, I'm sure there's many threads in here for beginners.

In my opinon, if u go ask ard in fish shop i'm afraid they may not give honest answers as well, since eventually they're still in the sales trade. (Not saying all are dishonest, but u may come across one also)

All in all, is ur hubby equipped with the sufficient knowledge first? I suppose he is b4 taking up this hobby..

And cheers for taking such a keen interest in this hobby

[bivi]

Hmm.. i thot my hubby know a lot.... but eversince i found some dead fish in the tank, I think he is not sure himself. And after reading and looking at the 'equipment' of the some of the reefers... i have a guilty feeling that maybe we are not doing it the right way.

I just want the fish to be alive and healthy, and not dying. I try reading up from the forum but there are so many things to read, I dunno where to start.

Firstly, I think the skimmer we use is not sufficient for the tank we have. My hubby got one 'cheap cheap' one from his uncle. I was recommended a Deltec skimmers for 5ft and it cost >$1k. Is there a cheaper version, that could do the same job? What other 'basic' essentials that we need to have?

Oh ya, i used to have 4 small clownfish but one by one they disappeared! No trace at all. I wonder who could've eaten them? Got another 1 bigger clownfish and also went missing. Before the bigger nemo went missing, it seemed to be stressed after hubby re-arrange and add rocks in tank.

Since i'm trying to be 'economical' here, maybe instead of buying book, I could learn abt Marine Fish from internet? Sufficient?

Sorry for all the fish we've killed (indirectly or directly). I had nightmare abt it (abt me cleaning the white spots off nemo to rescue it)

[bivi]

TEST: we started this tank since Mar06, but never check the Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate level. Is it too late to do that? Or not necessary?

CHILLERS: what does chillers do? Do we need it only if we keep corals? We don't have any fan blowing into the tank, will the rise of temperature (up to 31C, i read) affect the fish?

Sorry to ask so many qn.. I still hv not found a website that covers the basic of marine fish tank.

[Dazza]

hihi bivi... i suspect that yr tank has not been cycled yet...so its best to not add anymore livestks n chk to make sure at least the pH, ammonia n nitrite are ok... If not ok then let the tank complete its cycle..

[Dazza]

There are plenty of references available on web so u can save some $$$

Eg:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/

http://saltaquarium.about.com/

[andylee]

The third link provided by Dazza (about.com) is quite a detailed reference.

Esp the one "setting up aquarium in 10 steps"

[bivi]

hi Dazza and andylee

Thanks for your comments n suggestion.

How long does it take to cycle, cos we started it in mid March so it's already 2months. Is it not enough?

Some fish from our 1st batch (bought 1mth ago) survived though, or at least one of each species we got. I will put the pic of some of them, although maybe a bit blur.

Those that survived from 1st batch (sorry, dunno the actual names for them)

a) the yellow one (not the yellow-striped one)

the blue ones (used to have 4, left with 2)

c) the black one with white dot (used to have 2, but 1 was attacked by yellow fish)

d) the white one with blue fin/tail (also hv 2, but 1 was attacked by yellow fish)

So since the 4 type of fish survived from 1st batch, does it mean the water has cycled?

[Sinn]

cycling is an ongoing process..

right now it could be cycled - meaning able to support the bioload (the fishes)

but if u add lets say another 5 fishes, the bioload will increase tremendously, a mini cycle will start again. but that also depends on how big yer tank is and how matured yer live rocks are.

[bivi]

oops, i think my re-size didn't work in last pics.

Oh ya, the black fish could be seen clearer in this next pic.

And we bought the sand-fish (that's what i call it) from the same batch.

I know there are so many qn but on the basis of importance, is there anything that I need to do first thing tomorrow? (eg. if check/test the water, then i'll need to buy test kit)

And I still need to feed the fish tomorrow and I just bought new food (Spectrum Tetra A)and fed them 1st time last night.

The fish seemed to try to swallow/eat the food but not successful, the food came out and sink again. Is the food too big? Am I supposed to crush the granule smaller or mix it with water before feeding it to them?

[bivi]

Oh no!! hubby just put it these new fishes on Sunday (14May), our 3rd batch!!

- another Nemo (no:7),

- 2 doctor prawn,

- 2 white colour fish (which i think will not last cos keep rubbing body against sands and hide in rocks gaps)

- 6 small fishes that go in groups

- 2 Kaudern's Cardinal

- 1 Royal Gramma Basslet

I keep telling him to test the water or equipment first cos we lost 2 big nemo and 2 tang a week before that.

Anything I should do in the light of these additional fishes in the tank? More bacteria?

[cdckjn]

it is sad to see such a nice 4ft tank not able to reach its full potential. I guess that when both you and hubby decide to have this tank, you should have done the research and I hope that it is not an impulsive move.

No matter what, if you started the tank in March, now it is still in the cycling stage as the overall tank is huge. The live rock that you have may not be very mature therefore it takes a long time to cycle the tank. Mature live rocks should have coralline algae (red/purples patches) growing on the rocks.

The fishes (mostly damsels - clownfishes are also a species of damsel family) tends to be quite hardy. So they should be able to withstand quite "bad conditions" in the tank.

I also saw that you have anemones, some other corals, soft corals like mushrooms. Try not to buy anymore as the tank conditions is not yet stable. Also DO NOT buy any more fishes - allow the tank to stablise and remain status quo for at least 2 months - feeding the fishes ensure that the fishes are settled in. And not rescape the tank anymore. Rescape will stir up the dirt and casues the unstable conditions.

The main thing is let it be for at least 2 months. by the time, hopefully by reading the threads in this forum, you gain enough experience then can slowly take out the damsels, then buy bigger nicer fishes. if not you are wasting money - keeping buying fishes just to keep some fishes in your tank - just like the local fish shop. That's why sometimes you see they always have so nice fishes in their tank.

Good Luck!

[Elune]

u had better stop ur hubby from introducing so many fishes at a go like this. Doing so will only drastically increase the tank's bio-load. Fishes should be introduced one by one... avrg abt 1 fish a week.

At this point of time, what i would recommend you to do are:

1) Regarding all those fishes rubbing their bodies on sand/rocks -- they're sick, and will die soon, and they'll affect the healthy fishes as well -- u either scoop them up and place them in a smaller temporary tank to watch them slowly die off, or u can attempt to treat them with anti-ich solutions, or engage hyposalinity treatment. But at this point of time, u might experience difficulty in saving these fishes becuz u lack the necessary equipment n know-how.

2) Get all the names of the fishes correct (common names will do, not necessary scientiic names) check out www.liveaquaria.com , u will find alot of info there.

3) Read up about what is call Amyloodinium ocellatum (Marine Velvet) and Cryptocaryon irritans (Saltwater Ich); then decide if your entire tank is affected or not, and if you want to restart the entire tank or not. My guess is, ur tank is infected with ich, and it will spread to other fishes. New fishes are supposed to undergo quarantine before introducing into the maintank.

4) Test ur water parameters. Buy the test kits for Nitrites and Nitrates at minimum. This will set u back by six to seven red notes. This will tell you if ur tank is ready for fish or not. At the time being, i can see ur tank is mostly damsels, gobys and clown fishes. These are hardy fishes, but it doesn't mean that you can give them a hard time ya?

5) Chiller-wise, a cheap one will set u back by around a couple of hundreds. But its not necessary yet since u are keeping fishes only. Go get a fan, it will bring down the temperatures a bit, if u can reach 27-28 with fan ( which i did ) its good enuf. Fishes can tolerate temperatures as high as 31-32, I haven come across ppl with 33 celsius yet...

6) Go to the member's tank thread and start a thread on ur own tank. post pictures periodically and ask questions there. Reefers here will zoom in on ur thread and dedicate more specific answers to you.

All the best to your tank. keep us updated again ya?

[andylee]

Introducing so many fishes at one go is a definite no-no

And are those rocks bought from fish shop? Live or dead?

I would suggest the immediate thing to do now is to buy some test kits and stop adding anymore fish..

[alanseah]

the easiest way is ask any reefer staying near by go over your house and teach your hubby how to keep fish only tank will do.

Coral will be a no no since $$ is any issue now.

[bivi]

thanks y'all,

I think Fish tank looks cool and since my hubby and his uncle had done smaller fish tank before, I leave them with the Fish Tank n its work. I thought that I could just enjoy the fishes only

Only when the fish started to die, i begun to suspect that keeping fish is prob not as simple as what hubby thought.

(psst, hubby don't know abt me going on forum... dunno how he'll react)

As for the last batch of fishes, I told him not to buy cos they'll DIE anyway (hubby banned me from saying the word "DIE" since then). Dragged him to Reef Depot yesterday to get test kits but bought fish food instead

Now, to summarise what I should do first-thing:

- Buy Test KIT

- Buy thermometer (dont' think we have one, but i'll check)

- Buy Fan (no idea where to buy....)

- Test if whole tank infected with Saltwater Ich or Marine Velvet (no idea too, but will read up)

- NO to: buying anymore new fishes, anemone or soft corals, rescape tank

More Qn:

- To speed it up, should we get more LR (live rocks)?

- Is quarantine tank a separate tank altogehter? Or it's just putting the fish inside 'box' in the tank ?(I saw some tank have fish in separate container in the tank)

[bivi]

the easiest way is ask any reefer staying near by go over your house and teach your hubby how to keep fish only tank will do.

Coral will be a no no since $$ is any issue now.

Let me talk to my hubby abt it. I thin his EGO has been crushed eversince I called him 'fish killer' so i'm not too sure he would take it if smbdy come and 'teach' him how to run his tank.

But seriously I need help. I'm not sure if I have as much passion for fish as you all but I'm NOTgoing to have fish dying in the tank

Er, I don't even know I have corals in the tank

[Elune]

this EGO thingy is a very difficult thingy to get over....

I wun wan me girlfriend to ask another guy (who i dunno) to come over just to teach me... it will seriously bruise my ego...

It's even worse to know that my wife at home has invited some guys to come over to give advice, while I m not around.

I'd rather you introduce him this SRC forum, this will be a more tactful approach.

I see that u have an anemone in ur tank and a sea fan. Note that Anemone are time bombs, should they die.... they'll bring everyone along, and stink ur house for a couple of days (this is the worse case scenario u can get).

To answer ur additional questions:

1) Getting Liverocks; u get all the quantity u need at the first time, then proceed to cycle ur waters. Adding more at a later stage would kickstart another mini-cycle of ANN. Liverocks are called liverocks becuz there are living organisms inside, bacterias, worms, crabs, codpods, wat-have-you. These things either die or multiply depending on the water and they affect the rise and fall of Ammonia. If u are cycling ur waters and halfway thru, u add another few pieces of liverocks, the mini-cycles will disrupt the whole cycling process. Note that a cycling of water can take up to 4-6 (some 8weeks) weeks to stabalise. Its also tank-size dependent and the amt of liverocks u have.

During cycling, ur water and rocks will start to smell a little. it should clear up by the 3rd or 4th week. Thats when I recommend u to use ur test-kits.

2) Quarantine tanks (aka. QT, some called it Hospital Tank) are separate tanks altogether. The safest way introduce new fishes is to keep new fishes in quarantine tanks for up to 2 weeks (or longer depending how healthy the fishes are). Some ppl dose anti-ich or other treatment solutions inside the QT to 'clean-up" the fish before adding into their main tank.

Reason : some reefers have in their maintanks fishes or coral that cost them a couple of thousand dollars.. and one single unhealthy ich-infested fish can bring everything crushing down. Thats why QTs come in handy.

Imagine during the SARs outbreak, how the Govt quarantine ppl?

Those separate containers found floating inside the tanks are commonly called "Betta Boxes" -- comes in plastic or mesh type of various sizes...

We use these boxes to temporary house corals (e.g. mushrooms) or fishes. Thats for a separate reason.

Not to say that u should go buy a separate tank as a QT. Many of us here do not practice the QT method (at least I dun). We select fishes carefully in the LFS (Local Fish Shop)... (healthy fishes responds when u ask to feed them in the LFS)... buy home, and then carefully acclimatise the fishes before introducing them into main tank.

Do note also that the individual temperament of certain species of fish affects other fishes' health to a certain extent. Damsels (which u have alot in ur tank) are especially territorial, and they will attack fishes that swam near their place. More docile fishes that gets bullied too much gets stressed up, their health will be affected, immunity will drop, and they will be susceptible to parasites attacks. (Alot of us reefer hate these Damsels like anything.. so we dun buy them and thats why these Damsels are so cheap in LFS).

Perhaps the next question u might ask is :"How ppl here introduce new fishes?". If u do a search on this topic here, u might find ur answer.

[bivi]

Thanks Elune,

I'm not even gonna ask abt introducing fish, pretty occupied to get the present fish to be healthy n happy.

Qn again:

- Is there a risk of overfeeding? I fed them 3 times already (cos the food seems to big n the fish keep missing the 'target')

I tried diluting it with the tank water on 3rd try, better 'capture' rate.

- AFteri diluted the food with water and fed the fish, I still hv some leftover in the bowl. Can I keep the remaining wet-food for their dinner?

- So I need to get LR? I'll ask my hubby to get it this weekend. Any place to recommend? (nearby town one).

- If I put LR now, is there any risk my fish or anemone be affected or die?

- My Tank is 4.5 x 2 x 2 feet, how much LR will I need?

- I have 2 anemone but only 1 clownfish. Should I get another one for the other anemone?

What will cause anemone to die?

[bivi]

The skimmer.

I was told by Seet (Reef Depot) that it's not sufficient. But the prof skimmer seems to cost a lot, is ther other alternative?

[bivi]

The salt, filter and food.

[bivi]

The.... er, i dunno what it's called... filtration system?

[bivi]

The water pump (black one)?

[bivi]

Side view of tank, can see the water flow on the side of tank.

[gerrard_boon]

yr skimmer is defintely not enough for yr tank...(that skimmer...maybe 2ft can reduce bioload a little....4 feet comfirm not enogh...)yes gd skimmer r more ex..but u pay 4 wat u get...anyway if u use the money spent on replacing the fishes u will find that its actually not that ex...u r keeping a fish only tank..skimmer is the most important equipment...n do remenber to make some research b4 u buy any fishes..some fight among themselves or attack other fishes...maybe that could be one of the reasons fish keep dieing too...(a lot of damsels in yr tank...not many ppl keep them...they r considered little devils!!!)