sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 the float switch - is like ON/OFF switch (no max. AC or DC) How can that be???? All contacts have a current rating for ac and dc current. This rating actually determine how long the contact will last . Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Hi I just want to bring up the above issue, having a AC device in a water filled tank. Can anybody advice on whether a AC submersible pump is safe to use. Thankx. How safe is your AC pump in water depend on how well waterproof is the pump connection that are submerge in water. Is it water tight or waterproof and up to what depth. Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 The problem now is not current leakage from the AC pump. The problem is current leakage from the float switch itself. If the leakage is bad enuff then someone might get electrocuted and worst of all if a child touch it and die then big time story already. I am sure you don't want to be held responsible for that? If the user do not have a sump drilled for the float switch then it is more dangerous because the wire is always submerged. However if you in-cooperate a relay (either mechanical relay or optical isolator) so that only DC current runs thru the float switch, this is an added level of safety. In case of leakage, 12v or 5v DC is not as harmful as 230v AC. This added safety feature will not cost much and is worth the extra price. I am sure you could get a factory here to do it and it will not cost a lot. This is just my 2cents worth of comments. I think we are not talking about voltage but current. Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponsor Octopus Bay Posted February 12, 2004 Author Sponsor Share Posted February 12, 2004 Hi, Here the Factory Specification Sheet Float Switch - Acrobat Reader Octopus Bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I agree with cookiemunster... It would not be advisable to use AC current and then submerge the probe directly into the water... Like what Weileong mentioned, if drilled a hole and then slightly better... It would be a better idea to use DC instead of AC... Also that type of probe, the sealing is not exactly that wonderful, having used it before...(though not in fish tank but in general marine application) once you have AC leaking into the tank, then safely wise.. not a good thing.. Putting a grounding probe just to counter, in the event of a leak, dont think its wise... prevention is better than cure... why not just incorprate a DC design in... The pumps submerge in the water has been tested and the sealing application is completely different. It has been tried and tested... I could explain to you how it is being sealed and all that but it would take too long and would be off topic here... Besides, we are talking abt seawater.. one of the most natural corrosive liquid there is... Your PSB friend engineer... I am sure if he has to be responsible or liable for this design he would not want to have his name down...Unless he did the design himself... I too have been acredited by the engineering board as a PE.. I can laugh and comment.. but if you were to ask me to put it down in black and white.. then it is a different thing altogether.. cos in the event if anything happens, not only would i lose me license but also me job... just be 2 cents... Who say DC will not kill? Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sponsor Octopus Bay Posted February 12, 2004 Author Sponsor Share Posted February 12, 2004 Sherman, Your profession? U Sounded very expert...... Octopus Bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member BarraCudaTM Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 There are plenty of 220V/250V AC float switches around. Most of these switches have a max current rating of 1A. That is abt 220/250watts of power you can load across the float switch safely. I wouldnt worry about the float switch leaking electricity but more worried on whether the 2 cable ends of the float switch are insulated with water proof heat shrink or other equilivant. This diagram can be used if all the stuff are installed properly. HOWEVER, I would discourage pple who dont know what they are doing / first timers / electrical newbies to wire it this way. Its not the voltage that kills, its the amperes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member nicky30092002 Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 There are plenty of 220V/250V AC float switches around. Most of these switches have a max current rating of 1A. That is abt 220/250watts of power you can load across the float switch safely. I wouldnt worry about the float switch leaking electricity but more worried on whether the 2 cable ends of the float switch are insulated with water proof heat shrink or other equilivant. This diagram can be used if all the stuff are installed properly. HOWEVER, I would discourage pple who dont know what they are doing / first timers / electrical newbies to wire it this way. Its not the voltage that kills, its the amperes! Right on the spot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weileong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I think we are not talking about voltage but current. When did I not talk about current? The last part refers to 230V AC because in case of leakage, the AC will form a close loop to the ground. The DC will not form a close loop thru the ground hence safer. Quote Weileong's 4ft tank Part I Weileong's 4ft tank Part II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member nicky30092002 Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 , I agree with cookiemunster... It would not be advisable to use AC current and then submerge the probe directly into the water... Like what Weileong mentioned, if drilled a hole and then slightly better... It would be a better idea to use DC instead of AC... Also that type of probe, the sealing is not exactly that wonderful, having used it before...(though not in fish tank but in general marine application) once you have AC leaking into the tank, then safely wise.. not a good thing.. Putting a grounding probe just to counter, in the event of a leak, dont think its wise... prevention is better than cure... why not just incorprate a DC design in... The pumps submerge in the water has been tested and the sealing application is completely different. It has been tried and tested... I could explain to you how it is being sealed and all that but it would take too long and would be off topic here... Besides, we are talking abt seawater.. one of the most natural corrosive liquid there is... Your PSB friend engineer... I am sure if he has to be responsible or liable for this design he would not want to have his name down...Unless he did the design himself... I too have been acredited by the engineering board as a PE.. I can laugh and comment.. but if you were to ask me to put it down in black and white.. then it is a different thing altogether.. cos in the event if anything happens, not only would i lose me license but also me job... just be 2 cents... paiseh, like to ask BENZ, U a PE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 When did I not talk about current? The last part refers to 230V AC because in case of leakage, the AC will form a close loop to the ground. The DC will not form a close loop thru the ground hence safer. How can a current work when there is no closed loop form???? Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weileong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Take a bare wire from the live wire and dip in water. Put your hand into the water. Pray hard your ELCB in your home is in working condition. Does that form a close loop? Run a 12V LED with a 12V battery. Tee one wire from the + point and dip in water. Put your hands into the water. Does that form a close loop? If you know what's going on then don't need to ask, else you dun know right? AC and DC means current or voltage ??? BTW current don't work, the electrons do the work! Quote Weileong's 4ft tank Part I Weileong's 4ft tank Part II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member BarraCudaTM Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 If the tank is grounded : And the 230V livewire is exposed, it will trip the ELCB in less than 1sec. If you flip back the ELCB without turning off the 230V source, it will trip again. If the tank is not grounded : And the 230V livewire is exposed, nothing will happen to yr ELCB and yr fish. However, if you touch the water with yr bare feet on the ground, you will get shocked. If the 2 live poles shortcircuit : It will blow the fuse, either the 13A plug fuse or yr main MCB fuse. No electricity will flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Benz... Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 Who say DC will not kill? Regards Since when did I say that DC would not kill... If you had bothered to read like 3-4 previous post... you would have realise dthat I replied to OB that DC can kill... and I have seen a colleague die once from just 24VDC while I was working on a rig some four years back in the North Seas.... And you seem to be rebutting all the threads... you got a agenda or what???..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Take a bare wire from the live wire and dip in water. Put your hand into the water. Pray hard your ELCB in your home is in working condition. Does that form a close loop? Run a 12V LED with a 12V battery. Tee one wire from the + point and dip in water. Put your hands into the water. Does that form a close loop? If you know what's going on then don't need to ask, else you dun know right? AC and DC means current or voltage ??? Disconnect the negative cable from your car battery,use one of your hand and hold onto the positive terminal and another one on the car body. This is 12 volt dc battery,see you like the feeling. Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Benz... Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 Take a bare wire from the live wire and dip in water. Put your hand into the water. Pray hard your ELCB in your home is in working condition. Does that form a close loop? Run a 12V LED with a 12V battery. Tee one wire from the + point and dip in water. Put your hands into the water. Does that form a close loop? If you know what's going on then don't need to ask, else you dun know right? AC and DC means current or voltage ??? BTW current don't work, the electrons do the work! but then lets not go into electron now... EE makes one wanna God know how many time I slept thru lectures.... no wonder I keep on getting shocks everytime i am working on an electrical system... or at least trying to repair one.... can take apart... but then put back... maybe cannot work hor... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weileong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Disconnect the negative cable from your car battery,use one of your hand and hold onto the positive terminal and another one on the car body.This is 12 volt dc battery,see you like the feeling. For the tank situation it does not form a close loop hence no current will flow. Might as well you put your tongue on a 6v gel cell then see how it'll fry your tongue. You want to dig electrical theory is it? come come Like benz.... said, I don't know what's your agenda Quote Weileong's 4ft tank Part I Weileong's 4ft tank Part II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Benz... Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 Disconnect the negative cable from your car battery,use one of your hand and hold onto the positive terminal and another one on the car body. This is 12 volt dc battery,see you like the feeling. Regards try working on a 5000kVA genset.... you actually have to go into the room just to change the brushes... before entering one... you use a ohm meter to "short" yourself with 1000V... very shiok man... No one is saying that Dc is not dangerous.. in high enough ampere.. it can kill... or at leats knock you out for a short period of time.. macham those tasers... Mannn... wish I was back in the states... can go play with tasers.... best electrifying shock massage you ever get.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Since when did I say that DC would not kill... If you had bothered to read like 3-4 previous post... you would have realise dthat I replied to OB that DC can kill... and I have seen a colleague die once from just 24VDC while I was working on a rig some four years back in the North Seas.... And you seem to be rebutting all the threads... you got a agenda or what???..... The point is to let all who read this thread know the true. AC will kill DC will also kill Whether is it safe or not depend on how careful you connect up your circuit and did you ensure all wires and connections are in good condition so that nothing live is expose. Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weileong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 but then lets not go into electron now... EE makes one wanna God know how many time I slept thru lectures.... no wonder I keep on getting shocks everytime i am working on an electrical system... or at least trying to repair one.... can take apart... but then put back... maybe cannot work hor... bo piang lei, pple try to dig and play around with my words... so I play back lor. The worst thing I hate are those damn DC motors! Quote Weileong's 4ft tank Part I Weileong's 4ft tank Part II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weileong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 who say DC will not kill? Definately not me, go dig out the message that I say that it will not kill?? Seems like you targetting me based on your comments hor? The fact remains that in case of a leakage, passing AC thru the float switch is more dangerous than passing DC. Quote Weileong's 4ft tank Part I Weileong's 4ft tank Part II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Benz... Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 bo piang lei, pple try to dig and play around with my words... so I play back lor. The worst thing I hate are those damn DC motors! agree... prefer AC ones.... but then sometimes.. due to requirements have to use DC motors... IMO.. they break down faster than AC ones.... (not starting a flame war hor... it is just IMO... ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherman Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 who say DC will not kill? Definately not me, go dig out the message that I say that it will not kill?? Seems like you targetting me based on your comments hor? The fact remains that in case of a leakage, passing AC thru the float switch is more dangerous than passing DC. Not targeting at anyone but to make sure whoever read this thread knows and understand both AC and DC are dangerous if not handle properly. Regards Quote 6.5 * 2 * 2 + 3.75 * 1.5 *1.5,(Decomn on 14/9/08) 4*2*2 + 2.5*1.25*1.25 (Decomn on 1/8/09) 5*2*2 (Fully LED light system, 140 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 2.5*2*2(Fully LED Light System,96 3 watt SSC leds with 60 degree lens)(Decomm) 5*2.5*2(LED only) Eheim return 1 * pump 1 HP Daikin compressor with cooling coil 2 Jebao OW40, 1 ecotech MP40, 1X6085 Tunze wm, 1 CURVE 7 Skimmer 1 DIY 80 led control by Bluefish mini 1 radion XR30W G2, 2 Radion XR15G3 Sump area lite by 5 ft T5 , 6 * SSC 3 watt red LED for refugium 1 Full spectrum E27 led light 1 CR control by bubble count Start No Water Change since 1st Dec 2016 Add new 2.5x2x 1.5 ft [/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member BarraCudaTM Posted February 12, 2004 SRC Member Share Posted February 12, 2004 So the conclusion is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weileong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 don't pass DC or AC thru the float-switch. Use optical level sensor. Not so feasible for our reef tank right? So use the one that is safer. Quote Weileong's 4ft tank Part I Weileong's 4ft tank Part II Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.