Miracle Mud User : HELP

[kareen]

Pls contribute your finding & observation. Pls keep this thread clean as in only contribute IF U HAVE USED IT BEFORE not from what u read.

Maybe also the informal way of miracle mud.... See quote.

One extreme and very cheap way to get mud is to go to GOOD clean mangroves area and get the swamp mud from there. My friend got some in redang isle and added to his fuge... only complain he had is that the fuge cannot be use for about 3 days as the mud takes a long time to settle in the sump tank. But this way the risk of adding bad stuffs into your tank is greater...but so far his tank is ok and micro-algae is growing well under T5 lights.

One last alternative is in experimental stage, the same friend set up a 10g nano and set up a 2g fuge using those planted tank base substrate. Just set up 2 weeks ago so far no update as he's living in UK and we keep in touch every now and then only...

[35Cents]

Hi Karen, as we were discussing...i attached a few pics of my fuge for your reference.

MM...pretty disappointed at first as it looks like VERY expensive garden soil:

Just added into the fuge custom built behind my nano tank:

Top view

Side view

[kareen]

Gee... really look like garden soil.... Hm.... pls keep us posted on your friends "informal" way of MM.... **potentially money saving ways**

[35Cents]

After settling:

I add in caulepa algae into the fuge after 1 week, saw intial signs of algae crashing and dump the large ones and kept the smaller sized caulepa. Notice that the fuge is full of green algae, but my main tank is clean and free from it. The fuge light is a 9W PC on 24/7.

[35Cents]

Top view after 5 weeks:

Side view, didn't notice the base got so much algae till I took the caulepa out to wash it.

Currently my fuge still have those undesirable green algae growing...was told by henry that its a phase for MM users, but quite happy wif it as its not spreading to main tank and its getting lesser now... dunno if its because the phase is dying out or some stroma snails are at work as they spawned a few weeks ago.

[35Cents]

Gee... really look like garden soil.... Hm.... pls keep us posted on your friends "informal" way of MM.... **potentially money saving ways**

will do...

[roidan]

not a user...but here's a close look at MM

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

[Marineman]

I am a MM user, I remembered that you don't need to have such a deep MM bed, only a couple of inches. The caulerpa will take time to settle down and grow, I find the remosa variety grows better than the fern species. After a few months, the caulerpa will grows very quickly. As my water flow is over the top of the fuge, my remosa does not take root to the LR or mud, it floats densely from the top to the mid section with a clear gap between the mud bed and the roots of the remosa.

You will experience red slime algae after a few weeks of use, this is expected and you need to siphon it out if you wish. I don't think you need to clean your fuge, it is meant to be full of algae for nutrient export.

My corals polyps expansion are tremendous, I got no complains other than cost and the rask of having to change 50% of the MM every year. I have it for 2 years already.

[kareen]

Hi Marineman!

Can you shed some lights on your tank and spec also? Especially the nitrate all of us are so sensitive too.... **You are a GOOD example of MM user if your tank is heavily stocked**

[35Cents]

Marineman, thanks for the advise... here's the latest pic of the fuge, taken about 10 mins ago...the caulepa really grows super fast...difference of about 2 weeks from last pic.

[kareen]

not a user...but here's a close look at MM 

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

yeah... I know. BUT have any one of us examine the sea bed before? Maybe the same also leh.

[decentkid]

from what i know...silicon dioxide sand is usually river sand and sand from the sand bed is calcium carbonate....

if sand from the sand bed is silicon dioxide...so much silicate would be released that will result in a cyano bloom

just my 2 cents

[kareen]

from what i know...silicon dioxide sand is usually river sand and sand from the sand bed is calcium carbonate....

if sand from the sand bed is silicon dioxide...so much silicate would be released that will result in a cyano bloom

just my 2 cents   

ok....but r u referring to a small part of the ocean? For my general thinking I think maybe those muddy swamps somehow get connected to the ocean....

[Marineman]

Hi Marineman!

Can you shed some lights on your tank and spec also? Especially the nitrate all of us are so sensitive too.... **You are a GOOD example of MM user if your tank is heavily stocked**

Marineman, thanks for the advise... here's the latest pic of the fuge, taken about 10 mins ago...the caulepa really grows super fast...difference of about 2 weeks from last pic

When I first used the remosa, i did not harvest it at all for about a year, it grew very very thick until I met up with AT and he advised me to harvest before it go asexual, now I have to harvest about 4-6 weeks. It grows very fast after the harvest.

My tankspecs is 42*24*24, refugium size follows the guideline given by the MM manufacturer. I use Aqua C Remora Pro for skimming, still has skimmate, empty about 250 ml per month of skimmate, athough slimmer is not required.

I have problems with my nitrates always hovering between 15-25 ppm for 2 reasons, I have 16 fishes which includes 3 tangs, an algae belnny, 2 bartletts, flame etc. and I have a nitrate factory, the overflow column/box was filled with bioballs so is the water return section of the sump, i have yet to remove them slowly (quite a hassle or maybe I am too lazy), more than 100 pcs, I believe these two contribute to my nitrates.

I will take them out over a few weeks and let you know if the nitrate is stll high.

BTW I am using AZ NO3 to bring my nitrate down to below 10ppm.

[35Cents]

not a user...but here's a close look at MM

http://www.inlandreef.com/Testing/MManalysis.html

I read that report prior to committing to MM (deciding MM or super skimmer for nano tank) but was convince by wat I see in one of my reefer friend's tank which he swears by it. Currently, I personally cannot say 100% this stuffs do wonders as its only nearing 3 months of usage, but so far so good....no regrets ....yet!

[williammuk]

Hmmm ... this is a controversial topic. From as far as I can remember in SRC, there has always been conflicting points of view.

I used it in my old tank for two years (from Sep 2002 to Nov 2004). It was doing great back then. You won't see any pictures in the old threads because those were wiped out during the big SRC crash. You may view them in my Webshots Album if you wish.

You may also wish to take a look at this thread where it was discussed back in 2003.

Hope this helps in your search for truth.

[kareen]

U really had a skimless tank then? This is my final goal.... achieving the ECO system balance in my small 4 footer. **if possible **

Pls do share more of your experience. Can be like the routines of maintaining it, behaviour of livestocks (those hard to feed ones if any) or even comments like don't even need to feed plankton, pellets etc, etc.

[kareen]

**so many posting to read.... eye blur already......** But really thankful. I think need some time to ponder.

35cents : Any where in Singapore suitable .... How about harvest it from the few nature reserve in Singapore? Possible?

[35Cents]

Nature reserve cannot lah...reserve leh (National Parks Board watching)! Local waters so dirty how dare to take and put in valuable tank. You got chance go to malaysia then get it lah....or actually some southern isles in singapore water quality ok lah...can consider.

[williammuk]

U really had a skimless tank then? This is my final goal.... achieving the ECO system balance in my small 4 footer. **if possible **

Pls do share more of your experience. Can be like the routines of maintaining it, behaviour of livestocks (those hard to feed ones if any) or even comments like don't even need to feed plankton, pellets etc, etc.

Considering that my old tank was heavily overstocked and I overfeed daily, I still do 15% water change weekly. I used to keep fans and suncorals which require daily feeding ... and I do feed them daily with Phytoplan, frozen Red Plankton, Cyclopeze, etc.

BTW, I also replied the questions in your PM.

[kareen]

roidan & decentkid : thanks for pointing this out.... Actually I knew about it and it is logical 'cos I'm sure MM are actually harvest from some lakes or swamp area on world.....and then package it to sell us. However, have you ever ponder why there are numerous MM success story?

Have you ever doubt why 2 molecules of hydrogen and 1 molecules of oxygen give water? Afterall hydrogen and oxygen are gas and the result, water is liquid. So, maybe thru the complex chemical transformation that the ingredent of MM yields the additives we manually dose into our tank.....

I have been wondering what make MM refu. different from our normal refu...... Abundunt macro algae growth and pods population can be achieved via our normal refu. **at least that's why I see on mine** But yet, the reult is so different when one employ MM. This lead me to think of the leaching properties of MM. I suspect that maybe MM is leacking trace additives in a way like supply and demand thing. In another word, the correct Mg, Sr, I, etc etc. **If you can understand how CR work, why not on this case?** This in turn like the big ocean, make the water in the tank more stable than normal type. If this is true maybe we can just put MM in rowaphos type of FR and it will work. **easy maintain since need to replace yearly.... and who knows it may be the first of its type ** I think the MM FR outlet will not be at the same position we place the CR outlet though for this case..... Also, I notice that users always mention algae bloom in refu and not the display. Maybe MM is also leaching PO4 and the silicate in water too but like the supply and demand thing, it only cause bloom in refu only 'cos all is used up in refu. **Imagine the swampy area = refu. and big oceans=display tank **

Okay, that's about all I would like to share my view with you guys here. Hope to see more inputs on this MM..... **don't let the thread 'dies'**

[huanjie]

Hi Kareen

I have been using MM for 1.5 years, but not to the reccomended amount the manufacturer reccomended in terms of tank capacity, as mine is a rojak system with a mini plenum, a mud, coniderable amount of LR and a skimmer, all slightly under size(other than LR), hoping that all the system woud add up to the differeces :)Sure, there are cyno outbreak twice, and diatom, but I think its more to do with family members getting too excited whenever there are new LS and over feed

my lps has been doing fine.... I change water every 2 months 20% (depending on the mood of the coral, if they don't look happy I change, but never within a same month) so far so good, nitrate is around 10ppm.

I cant tell how much the MM did, but one thing I know is it definately help to speed up the refugium growth, I got to trim it every week, and it also act as a time-release trace element.

[kareen]

Have any of the MM user do any water parameter measurement like the Mg, Sr and I? **any of the three also can**

If so, maybe can post here.....

[roidan]

However, have you ever ponder why there are numerous MM success story? 

hehe...you got a point...

but then again...i also wonder why there seem to be numerous non-MM success stories also

just like there used to be a rave about Marc Weiss products from users who report positive results after using.....but then again there are lots of other non-users who experience similar positives in their systems without using Marc Weiss products

not to say MM or Marc Weiss products are worthless, but just to what extent does it help a system compared to one without them

[35Cents]

The water parameters in the first week when MM is added is:

Mg: 1500ppm or higher

Sr: 15 mg/L

I: never measure

After near 3 months without dosing the above element, taken on monday:

Mg: 1300ppm

Sr: 10 mg/l

I: never measure but my 2 scarlet hermits had molted twice already and I think they are molting now as I haven't seen them in tank for the past few days...they "disappear" when molting.

As you can see, the elements are decreasing but still in recommended values... will not dose those additives till they go down further. Hope this helps...

PS: Do take note that I'm dosing TM Bio-Calcium which contains all the needed trace elements. Thus I cannot say MM is really 100% magical in saying no other trace elements needed except cal.