6x2.5x2.5 Reef Tank Plans/Progress

[Terryz_]

WOW... The deltec needlewheel looks great man... ??? Seems like a few a changing from beckett to needlewheel liao... Hehe..

[Dispar_Anthias]

My Deltec AP902 Protein Skimmer:

Woah another deltec monster

[riot]

Thats a real beauty, Alfa. I wonder if there's any difference between the deltecs and the H&Ss? Also, hows the support if you need to replace a damaged needlewheel?

[weileong]

The Main Difference between Beckett and Needlewheel:

Beckett:

High power consumption - Pressure rated pump preferred

High flow rates thru skimmer with more turnover but lesser efficiency per pass thru the skimmer due to less dwell time

Less Expensive relatively

Needlewheel:

Low power consumption

Low flow rates thru skimmer with less turnover/hour but more efficient per pass thru the skimmer cos of increased dwell time

More $

So basically, 2 different school of thoughts for the skimmers but both effective in aidding the reefer with very very clean water quality.

Just have a look at the beckett-powered reefs of AT/Scarab/DB/Danano/Weileong/Roidan/Hon etc etc .... POWER!!! absolutely amazing reefs which I can only dream of having... sob sob

Actually I just measured the power consumption of my MX70 driving my beckett and the 1260 needlewheel and aquabee feed pump in my deltec AP850 (the next smaller skimmer compared to Alfa's AP902 using two 1260 needlewheel.

The MX70 draws about 170W.

The 1260 needlewheel draws abt 72W each so for the case of AP902 running 2 needlewheel then it draws ard 2*72W = 144W.

The feed pump for AP902 is 1262 and that is rated for 80W and that's a total of 224W which is more than what the beckett draws.

The clamp meter maybe not 100% accurate so we just take what is printed on the label and that should be 65W for each needlewheel and that is 2*65 = 130W for 2x1260 needlewheel and 80W for 1262 feedpump so total of 210W which is still higher than the MX70 driving the beckett.

I think the main difference here is the noise you get from the MX70 The deltec is so much quieter *phew*

[AlfaRomeo]

I see, thanks for the investigative work. Will write to Deltec for their comments on this. Its wrongful advertisement cos they stated that the pumps draw 38w each..

We will see what they say..

[weileong]

I also find it strange cos Deltec website listed as 38W for each needlewheel pump.

Yet what I measured for the aquabee 2000/i feedpump rated at 38w I got 0.15amps which works out to be abt 38W.

Whereas for the 1260 needlewheel pump it measures to be drawing 0.3amps which works out to be 72W. We assume power factor around 0.9 to 0.95 for these type of pump so the ehiem stick is correct at 65W.

Let's wait for deltec's reply cos clamp meter doesn't lie abt the current drawn.

[alanseah]

but looking at it.. for all we know 1260 never draw such low watt.. it's always somewhere at 65W one...

hmm.. but even it consume more power then mx70.. how is the performace compare to beckett...

[AlfaRomeo]

Performance so far for 1 week is very good. Still breaking in, I think cos never wash the skimmer like weileong did.. even now, i can see that my water is cleaner than when I had my beckett running... maybe cos i dunt know how to tune the beckett properly...

[weileong]

You know not all beckett are built the same. Like needlewheel, not all needlewheel are the same. Think you get what I am trying to say

[alanseah]

You know not all beckett are built the same. Like needlewheel, not all needlewheel are the same. Think you get what I am trying to say

yes but one thing for sure... performance tell everything...

[AlfaRomeo]

yes but one thing for sure... performance tell everything...

Performance is key to everything but when the User is a dumbo newbie like me... then a super performing beckett also will not perform up to its potential...

[weileong]

If the user don't know how to tune properly then even getting a super performing needlewheel also no use cos it also will not perform to it's full potential

[alanseah]

If the user don't know how to tune properly then even getting a super performing needlewheel also no use cos it also will not perform to it's full potential

but sometime very hard to say when is the full potential. Cause even u have tune to getting dark dark skimmate it may not be in it full potential yet... and u though u have drive it to the max...

and for some no matter how they tune they cant get the same result as other who r having the same skimmer as him...even he know how to tune skimmer...

one thing about skimmer is very dependance on your tank water condition...

[weileong]

but sometime very hard to say when is the full potential. Cause even u have tune to getting dark dark skimmate it may not be in it full potential yet... and u though u have drive it to the max...

and for some no matter how they tune they cant get the same result as other who r having the same skimmer as him...even he know how to tune skimmer...

one thing about skimmer is very dependance on your tank water condition...

You're right on Alan.

If the tank bioload is low and water is clean then even you use the best skimmer in this world also can't skim out anymore. No protein to skim then how can the skimmer product any skimmate?

Everyone looking for dark skimmer but I think the best is still the overall tank condition.

[AlfaRomeo]

Weileong, and we can only judge the tank condition with our ###### eyes rite? Apart from the COD that you mentioned.. which I would guess is bloody expensive to buy/get...

Wished there was a cleanliness/pristineness testkit that can tell us in an instant if more skimming is needed, less feeding etc etc

[weileong]

I quote from AquaC's website:

Protein skimming is nothing new - advanced aquarists and professionals have been using the technique for decades. Other fields unrelated to the aquarium industry have also used forms of foam fractionation to separate compounds from liquids. Only in the last few years, however, has the widescale market for skimmers exploded. New models and methods seem to pop up with the frequency of political scandals these days. This has led to a great deal of controversy as to who makes the best skimmer. This is not an easy question to answer. An aquarist looking for a small unit designed to skim a 15 gallon tank would not agree that a six foot tall venturi model would be the best choice. On the other hand, a hobbyist with a 100 gallon reef would hotly argue that this very skimmer is the best choice! Who is right??

They both are… There is no such thing as the "best" skimmer!

http://www.proteinskimmer.com/skimmerdatabase.htm

[AlfaRomeo]

Amount/Quality of skimmate I can get over 48 hours after tuning flow/dwell time:

[weileong]

That's very dark skimmate

[patrick123]

Actually I just measured the power consumption of my MX70 driving my beckett and the 1260 needlewheel and aquabee feed pump in my deltec AP850 (the next smaller skimmer compared to Alfa's AP902 using two 1260 needlewheel.

The MX70 draws about 170W.

The 1260 needlewheel draws abt 72W each so for the case of AP902 running 2 needlewheel then it draws ard 2*72W = 144W.

The feed pump for AP902 is 1262 and that is rated for 80W and that's a total of 224W which is more than what the beckett draws.

The clamp meter maybe not 100% accurate so we just take what is printed on the label and that should be 65W for each needlewheel and that is 2*65 = 130W for 2x1260 needlewheel and 80W for 1262 feedpump so total of 210W which is still higher than the MX70 driving the beckett.

I think the main difference here is the noise you get from the MX70 The deltec is so much quieter *phew*

If power is the same, and noise is the only issue, would it make sense to replace the MX-70 with a Red Dragon?

I understand that a Red Dragon is not pressurized, but MX-70 is only about 4000L/hr (not sure the actual rating) and if you use a RD that is rated at 12,000L/hr, even after going through the beckett, should still be able to achieve the same water flow as the MX-70 right?

Will this be able to get rid of the noise on the MX-70 once and for all.

Please comment.

Regards,

Patrick

[patrick123]

Weileong, and we can only judge the tank condition with our ###### eyes rite? Apart from the COD that you mentioned.. which I would guess is bloody expensive to buy/get...

Wished there was a cleanliness/pristineness testkit that can tell us in an instant if more skimming is needed, less feeding etc etc

Alfa,

Are you able to tell the difference in water quality between a needlewheel skimmer versus a beckett skimmer by the reading of the ORP?

Regards,

Patrick

[AlfaRomeo]

Patrick, firstly the RD is not for pressurized applications. There are instances that the RD broke down after some use driving a beckett. Its mainly for high flow and cannot withstand high pressure forces as its not designed for it.

Cannot use ORP to measure the cleanliness as its a relative measurement. Only useful thing about ORP is trend analysis. Furthermore, my ORP probe needs calibration i think and its now offline so i dunt really know my orp levels Visually, i can see the water clearly and cleaner. I hope the pesky patches of cyano will go away soon tho.

[Hon]

Alfa is right. My 8m3 RD broke down slightly over a year driving my beckett. I believe is the pressure causing the motor to put out more heat due to inadequate cooling.

[weileong]

Would a Red dragon with the Calcium by-pass work in this case?

[patrick123]

oic. Looks like all the beckett user have no choice but to stick to iwaki. I love the beckett skimming but at times also find the noise unbearable.

One more question. I find that the skimmate of my beckett is very thick and black, like mud, but they are odourless....unlike the needlewheel skimmer that Alfa have that produce very smelly skimmate. Can someone tell what is the difference? Is that an indication that the needlewheel are skimming out things that the beckett is not?

Weileong, what is a calcium by-pass?

Thanks,

Patrick

[AlfaRomeo]

About 2 months of difference: