vincegoh Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Hi, people. My tank kept showing high nitrate and getting a bit sick to keep changing water. Quite expensive too. Other than change water and using refrugium, is there other methods? My tank is 3 months old hence I don't think my 4" DSB is mature at this moment. Will denitrator help? If yes, which is the best? Tank parameters: 5' x 2' x 2.5', overflow system to sump below but did not design for refrugium. Ammonia 0 Nitrite 0 Nitrate >40mg/L pH 8.4 Temperature 28 1 vagabond butterfly fish 2 clown fish 1 Banggai Cardinalfish 1 Tassle Filefish 2 dancing shrimps 1 Yellow Tang 1 Sleeper Goby (Golden head) 1 Blue/Regal Tang 1 Blue Damsel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member jsoon Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 Can you tell us what is your fitration in your sump like ? any denitrator ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegoh Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 No denitrator. Sump: 1 compartment: filter wool follow by coral chips 2 compartment: coral chips 3 compartment: filter wools and activated carbon 4 compartment (biggest compartment): 2 eheim powerhead (back into main tank), 1 dynamax ph + WEipo SA2014 protein skimmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roidan Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 remove your coral chips Quote Advanced Aquarist (March05) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryansimon Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 it'd be good if you had pictures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member jsoon Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 No denitrator. Sump: 1 compartment: filter wool follow by coral chips 2 compartment: coral chips 3 compartment: filter wools and activated carbon 4 compartment (biggest compartment): 2 eheim powerhead (back into main tank), 1 dynamax ph + WEipo SA2014 protein skimmer. Vincegoh, I have similar design like yours. A DSB in main tank and a slump at the bottom. I have wanted to convert to a refugium but the design of the slump was not meant for it. In my present slump, I have a overflow with bio-balls, 1st compartment -corals chips, filter mats, bio-homes, 2nd compartment - LR, polyfilter, charcoal, denitrator, 3rd compartment, PS, UV lights plus pumps. Anyway, I have added in Seachem Denitrator and another brand oglone (can't remember the spelling) and NO-3 does decrease a bit. At the moment, it stay hovers between 5ppm - 10ppm. However, the denitrator will cost more than water changes alone (salt + water + declorine), hence, I still do water change forthnightly at 10%. Maybe we can discuss our system as we have similar type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Vinoth Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 Seachem Denitrate will work only if your current nitrate level is 20 mg/l. Also the water flow should be around 50gal /hr. If more then we need to go for Seachem Matrix. I also have high nitrate problem. I dont have a sump. Biorings in IOS. Mine is > 100mg/L. Change 20% water 2 times. Still the same. Now trying AZ NO3. Hope the nitrates will be reduced Tank Specs 3 ft X 1.5 ft X 1.5ft with IOS 25 Kgs Live Rock 4 " sand bed 2 Clown Fish 2 Damsel Weipro Skimmer Is it coz of biorings in my IOS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryansimon Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I have similar design like yours. A DSB in main tank and a slump at the bottom. its sump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member reefer guy Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 how often do u feed ur ls? try to consider this aspect of discharging nutrients in ur water.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Nalin Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 Hi All ! Few months back i too faced the same problemsas you guys. Guess besides the best way of changing water, i have tried Algone Aquamarine DeNitrater and spend alot of money trying to solve this problem. Mine is a 2ft Nano tank as u can see mine is a Serious problem as my tank area is small.My reading for Nitrate is above 100ppm In my opinion , the most likely reason is that during setup the Cycling period is not complete.Therefore , the bioload of the tank does not provide a "Closed - Circuit " environment.That explain why you tried many methods the problems still exist. By problem is solve by dousing this brand Nutrafin " Cycle", it contain bacteria that speed up the cycling process.I do it periodically 1 cap each day for a period of 1 month.( I used up the whole Big Bottle ). I doused the whole bolltle in the filtration area near to the Biohome .At the same time i also used AZNo3 solution. Be careful of AZNO3 solution, used sparingly follow the instruction on the bottle..over usage will caused discomfort on the Fishes. My reading came down and my Corals polyps open up Tried Aquamarine Nitrate reducer but of no used. Recently i place Sea Chem Matrix in my tank as the 3rd line of defence. 1st line : Prizm 2nd Line : Biohome 3rd Line : Seachem Matrix 4th Line : Aquamarine Nitrate reducer Powder 5th line : Algone 6th Line : Live Sand 7th : Live Rocks If my tank still Fail...i will give up this Hobby Never give up..Never Never Say Never ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member ai[k²]wan Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 for those with no space for refugium below right, i have a suggestion for u.. at the overflow compartment there, remove all the bioballs, its useless, need maintenance a lot. extend the piping to 1/2 to 3/4 of the tank height so there will always be much water in the overflow compartment. place a lot a lot of macroalgae there, as much as u can. im very confident a bout this.most of the overflow compartments are as large as the hang on refugiums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member ai[k²]wan Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 for those who dont understand.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member jsoon Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 wan,Dec 1 2003, 12:38 PM] for those with no space for refugium below right, i have a suggestion for u.. at the overflow compartment there, remove all the bioballs, its useless, need maintenance a lot. extend the piping to 1/2 to 3/4 of the tank height so there will always be much water in the overflow compartment. place a lot a lot of macroalgae there, as much as u can. im very confident a bout this.most of the overflow compartments are as large as the hang on refugiums ai[k²]wan, OK. I am interested to know more. Let re-visit your drawing again. If I place macroalgae, how do I get the lighting in there for the plants ? All to coment, In this forum, many people says that bio-balls and coral chips don't help but does this only applies to a DSB system only. If I am not wrong, someone told me that bio-balls help increase water contact to air --> increase cycle --> increase No-3. The person who got my system did this system...bio-balls in overflow, etc... The only positive result I see is that when I do heavy load, the bio-filter is able to take it ... Comments and feedback welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member jsoon Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 its sump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegoh Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 how often do u feed ur ls? try to consider this aspect of discharging nutrients in ur water.... I feed them once a day. A cube of either brine shrimp or mysis shrimp + a bit sea weed + a bit of pellets. All dip in garlic. I have about 45kg of live rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincegoh Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 remove your coral chips Why remove the coral chips? I understand that coral chips and my bio-balls at the over-flow chamber will produce a lot of nitrate. However, if I remove them, then I will be struck with ammonia and nitrite which is worse, right? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member clowntrigger Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 ai[k²]wan, OK. I am interested to know more. Let re-visit your drawing again. If I place macroalgae, how do I get the lighting in there for the plants ? All to coment, In this forum, many people says that bio-balls and coral chips don't help but does this only applies to a DSB system only. If I am not wrong, someone told me that bio-balls help increase water contact to air --> increase cycle --> increase No-3. The person who got my system did this system...bio-balls in overflow, etc... The only positive result I see is that when I do heavy load, the bio-filter is able to take it ... Comments and feedback welcome. Bio ball, wet and dry filter is very efficient in converting Ammonia to Nitrite and then to Nitrate, the process stop here. that is why people employing the above method will find that they have high nitrates, that is why poeple term it nitrate factory. So in your case, yes the bio ball is able to take your system, but you will end up in high nitrate, hope this help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member derf Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 get rid of ur coral chips n get a better skimmer. for a 5 ft tank, i seriously dun think a weipro is good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwincis Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 I also recieve feedback that bioballs should not be used as it house the nitrates. If both bioballs and corals chips are not to be used, anyone have any suggestion on what should we reefers use? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member derf Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 use a dsb, change water regularly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member kominato Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 Hi..I am new to this forum and also quite new to fowlr with a 3x1.5x1.5 tank, abt 5 months now, using a uner gravel filter connected by a 1000 lit/hr puwer head to my 3.5 ft over head filter box, which has green mat, coral chips, bio balls, ceramic rings and charcoal. I hav abt 20 to 22 fishes and abt 4 to 5 small red crabs, 1 deco crab, 1 large star fish. also abt 8 kg LR, dsb abt 4 ",I hav had no fatalities over the last 2 over months, I change abt 10% water every 5 days or so, nh3 is abt 0.2, no2 is almost 0, no3 is abt 70 to 80. Yes I know I hav far too many fish inside, please give your comments. thanks Quote The Universal Law of Cause and Effect a.k.a the Mystic Law manifested in the Universe as Nam-Myoho-Renge-kyo. For World Peace and Human Happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member Tanggy Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 Aiyo... all the opinions flying. :) The bio balls and coral chips provide a place for bacteria to grow like the Live ROcks. They are only a nitrate factory if dirt like uneaten food, fish poo etc get stuck in them. Thats why its use in a wet dry configuration. The dry part filter out the dirt and the wet part convert armonia into NO2 then NO3. All systems be it berlin (Live rock) or wet dry cannot remove NO3 os even if you have a ton of live rocks or a thousand dollar skimmer, the NO3 will not be removed. Can only be remove by water change, denitrator (DSB, plenum, denitrator etc) or chemically (seachem denitrate etc). Thats why you need some form of denitrator to convert NO3 to nitrogen gas. Thats what a DSB does (plenum also). It provide denitrifiying bacteria a low (DSB) or zero (plenum) oxygen zone to grow and convert NO3 to nitrogen. The common impression is a DSB work and wet/dry dont but in fact they should be used together to compliment each other. If done correctly can yeild great results. There more than one way to skin a cat. So long if it works!! Cheers!! But putting bio balls in the overflow is very bad ideal as no prefilter, dirt will get track and become nitrate factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alentino Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 no doubt bioballs/wetdryfilter are nitrate factories due to over efficiency in coverting ammonia and nitrates. after a period of usage, ammonia and nitrite readings usually maintain at zero, however nitrate readings will frequently hit the high-end unless given frequent water changes. at this point, one should remove the bio-balls, but only a small amount at a time so as to allow bacteria to repopulate and not upset ammonia/nitrite conversion capability. after removing all the bio-ball stuffs, nitrate should decrease. Quote "Less technology, more biology" --- John Tullock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member kominato Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 oh dear...so I should remove my bio balls and coral chip from the overflow? then what else can I put in...thanks Quote The Universal Law of Cause and Effect a.k.a the Mystic Law manifested in the Universe as Nam-Myoho-Renge-kyo. For World Peace and Human Happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Member kominato Posted December 1, 2003 SRC Member Share Posted December 1, 2003 Since my over head filter box is abt 5" high, can I put in a 2" dsb, with my remaining filter mats, ceramic rings? Thanks Quote The Universal Law of Cause and Effect a.k.a the Mystic Law manifested in the Universe as Nam-Myoho-Renge-kyo. For World Peace and Human Happiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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