The comet's 5 footer!!!

[Ekia]

Actually its possible for a new tank setup to be unable to detect any NH4 or NO2 at all right from the start. I experienced it myself. But the difference is that I had the LRs cured in a separate tank for a month and the transfer between the 2 tanks is just a matter of seconds, therefore no die-offs observed.

After the transfer of all the LRs and aquascaping, I tested the water the following day and both NH4 and NO2 is zero. I waited for another 3 days and again, they are zero again. To be sure, I added a piece of market prawn and let it rot for a week. Every alternate days, I tested for NH4 and NO2 and they were never detected at all. Did a water change and started stocking from then on....

[Melvyn Tan]

Ekia, for your method it is possible when you have seeded rocks + matured stuffs. Again quantity dependant, which is why setup by lfs to owners who can't wait need only a matter of days before stocking-up. Still i think there will be some detectable Ammonia + Nitrite although not dangerous levels.

[Tigger]

Your tank is too big. It will take few weeks for ammonia to reach detectable limits. I have the same problem as my tank is 4 feet with 2 feet sump. When ammonia reading is detectable, it just spike!

[decentkid]

Just ask for some black skimmate from beckett users then pour all in confirm get your cycling started And probably won't get those terrible smell from the rotting prawn

hey...good idea...any beckett user can donate some of their skimmer waste??

i can use some for my new tank.. ..i am serious..my house is out of prawns and my parents lazy to go market...

[aStRoBo|]

Your tank is too big. It will take few weeks for ammonia to reach detectable limits. I have the same problem as my tank is 4 feet with 2 feet sump. When ammonia reading is detectable, it just spike!

hMm.. for my 2feet.. no matter how much market prawns i throw in, ammonia still safe.. nitrite still minimal. I using seeded LRs. cycle finished on day 9.

[shoelevy]

ok

will take into account fact tt rocks were mature and tank is big

will continue testing over this long hol period.

if both still 0 by the end of 10days...i'll assume its complete

[shoelevy]

Wow its really a phenomenon ! but surely the decomposition from nitrogenous waste - protein - amino acid (phenol) - amine [Mineralisation Stage] takes a while ? Maybe you wanna check your pH, if the Heterotrophic Bacteria is working, the conversation from Amine to Ammonia + Organic Acid will reduce the pH.

Whats your quantity of LR involved?

For aquarium without LR (or dead rocks) the Ammonia will kick in only after day 4 and peaked on day 8-9.

For aquarium with LR (quantity dependant) Nitrate production will start in day 1 and you should see a spike in Ammonia in day 4 and some Nitrite readings also (peaked in day 13-15), approx. day 16 the Nitrate will be rocket high.

Importantly, tank size and quantity/size of dead prawn ratio to kick start the ANN is also a factor.

Guideline for maturation time : -

Aquarium set-up with "seeded" live rock + "seeded" live sand filter (natural system) - about 3 - 10 days

Aquarium set-up with an "unseeded" sub-sand filter and "seeded" live rock - about 14 to 28 days

Hope this helps...

50kg out of 70kg of rocks i use is lr

[shoelevy]

jus did a test on nitrates frmo the tank...its at 20ppm

jus for comparision...i tested my tap water and its 5ppm.

i suppose this increase is due to the cycling?

[Ancelot]

Just ask for some black skimmate from beckett users then pour all in confirm get your cycling started And probably won't get those terrible smell from the rotting prawn

IMO i find this action stupid. Cause think about it.. if we are going to pour skimmate into our own tank arent we making whats going to be worst even MUCH more worst? whats the sole purpose of a skimmer? Removing proteins and other organic wastes so that our marine invertebrates and other critters can thrive right? So what will happen if we pour our skimmate back? We are surely going to kill alot of beneficial bacteria! and YES! you have a BIG ammonia spike but your tank will have a hard time coming back to live again! and what a waste of money investing in those good live rocks..

Weileong dude, I am not opposing your views i know you are joking but its hard to guarantee that there will be someone who read this liao really go and do it cause afterall, you got a great tank and all the experience yeah? so people tend to believe you and will go do that, well.. there goes another prospective reefer..

Just my 2 cents worth..

[decentkid]

IMO i find this action stupid. Cause think about it.. if we are going to pour skimmate into our own tank arent we making whats going to be worst even MUCH more worst? whats the sole purpose of a skimmer? Removing proteins and other organic wastes so that our marine invertebrates and other critters can thrive right? So what will happen if we pour our skimmate back? We are surely going to kill alot of beneficial bacteria! and YES! you have a BIG ammonia spike but your tank will have a hard time coming back to live again! and what a waste of money investing in those good live rocks..

Weileong dude, I am not opposing your views i know you are joking but its hard to guarantee that there will be someone who read this liao really go and do it cause afterall, you got a great tank and all the experience yeah? so people tend to believe you and will go do that, well.. there goes another prospective reefer..

Just my 2 cents worth..

he means to use the skimmate to cycle a new tank rather then use a prawn

[Ancelot]

i know thats what i mean!

[decentkid]

i know thats what i mean!

huh...then whats the diff between using the skimmate and using prawn??

[shoelevy]

ya lo...both will gif ammonia spike which is ultimately wat we want in cycling the tank rite?

[decentkid]

ya lo...both will gif ammonia spike which is ultimately wat we want in cycling the tank rite?

yar...thats y i dont see y is it wrong to use skimmate..ancelot..care to explain further?

[Ekia]

IMO i find this action stupid. Cause think about it.. if we are going to pour skimmate into our own tank arent we making whats going to be worst even MUCH more worst? whats the sole purpose of a skimmer? Removing proteins and other organic wastes so that our marine invertebrates and other critters can thrive right? So what will happen if we pour our skimmate back? We are surely going to kill alot of beneficial bacteria! and YES! you have a BIG ammonia spike but your tank will have a hard time coming back to live again! and what a waste of money investing in those good live rocks..

Weileong dude, I am not opposing your views i know you are joking but its hard to guarantee that there will be someone who read this liao really go and do it cause afterall, you got a great tank and all the experience yeah? so people tend to believe you and will go do that, well.. there goes another prospective reefer..

Just my 2 cents worth..

Skimmate should be able to start the cycle as well... although if u have LRs in the tank... its rather unnecessary... but i dun find anything wrong with it.. the main purpose of starting the cycle is to build up the beneficial bacteria... so getting the skimmate in will actually build up the beneficial bacteria

[weileong]

IMO i find this action stupid. Cause think about it.. if we are going to pour skimmate into our own tank arent we making whats going to be worst even MUCH more worst? whats the sole purpose of a skimmer? Removing proteins and other organic wastes so that our marine invertebrates and other critters can thrive right? So what will happen if we pour our skimmate back? We are surely going to kill alot of beneficial bacteria! and YES! you have a BIG ammonia spike but your tank will have a hard time coming back to live again! and what a waste of money investing in those good live rocks..

Weileong dude, I am not opposing your views i know you are joking but its hard to guarantee that there will be someone who read this liao really go and do it cause afterall, you got a great tank and all the experience yeah? so people tend to believe you and will go do that, well.. there goes another prospective reefer..

Just my 2 cents worth.. 

Hey bro.... I know you must be still very high from your ($320 - $20*2) corals.

Do read the whole thread properly, aStRoBo| is asking on how to kick start his ANN cycle. If pouring thick black skimmate into the tank is like what you mentioned is stupid, then throwing in a prawn to let it rot is as stupid if not worst as you still have to bear with the smell from the rotting prawn. Are you telling me that anyone who advise reefers to throw in prawn to kick start the cycle are giving wrong advise as well? Or even better our boss here AT who throw in a big Sotong into this tank to kick start the cycle is also giving stupid comments?

[blueheaven]

Cool bro weileong....

Lets get back to the topic, you can settle it with bro Ancelot privately

[aStRoBo|]

aWw.. im involved.. this not my thread leh.. but either way, skimate or prawn, even urine will work. so no hard feelings for the both bros..

[decentkid]

aWw.. im involved.. this not my thread leh..    but either way, skimate or prawn, even urine will work. so no hard feelings for the both bros.. 

haha...but just to add in..urine consist of urea and alot of other toxic...and urea and all those toxins wont really do good to your tank...

ok..lets carry on..

nice tank u have there...

nice skimmate too..

[lightningstrike]

IMO i find this action stupid. Cause think about it.. if we are going to pour skimmate into our own tank arent we making whats going to be worst even MUCH more worst?

i dun find using skimmate to kick off ANN cycle sounds stupid. the worst it can get is that u get an ammonia spike which is what aStRoBo| wants in order to kick start the cycle.

whats the sole purpose of a skimmer? Removing proteins and other organic wastes so that our marine invertebrates and other critters can thrive right? So what will happen if we pour our skimmate back? We are surely going to kill alot of beneficial bacteria! and YES! you have a BIG ammonia spike but your tank will have a hard time coming back to live again! and what a waste of money investing in those good live rocks..

the purpose of skimming really comes into effect after the ANN cycle to remove whatever DOC........ leaving beneficial bacterial to grow and colonise on the sand / LRs and do what it is suppose to do. no LS will be in the tank during the ANN cycle. so there is no cause for worry.

[blueheaven]

FYI, in regards to sandbeds, the autotrophic aerobic bacteria at the top layer actually consumes DOC and the byproduct is utilised by the heterotrophic anareobic bacteria

[rustee]

FYI, in regards to sandbeds, the autotrophic aerobic bacteria at the top layer actually consumes DOC and the byproduct is utilised by the heterotrophic anareobic bacteria

Dont autotrophic bacteria synthesize their own food (organic molecules) from simple raw materials such as inorganic compunds like inorganic nitrogen? why do they actually consume DOC?

[shoelevy]

brothers...i don't mean to be rude but this is supposed to be a thread i use to update people on my tank setup...occasionally we can veer for a while to make the thread interested but the bact and skim mate thing is going TOOO

STOP!!!

better sae sth to bring the back....hm....ph drop from 8.3 to 8.1

any comments?

[Melvyn Tan]

pH droped is a good sign - like i said there are (organic) acid which is produced as a result from the conversion from anime to ammonia + organic acid, a sign that the heterotrophic bacteria is working. OMEDETOO GOZAIMASU ! You should be able to detect some ammonia now.

[blueheaven]

Yeah sorry, I made a mistake, guess i was too tired

The bacteria that breaks organic compounds are the aerobic heterotrophs

Now back to shoelevy's tank