Ocean's Blend

[hotbod999]

Interesting, very interesting. I really don't have much time to spend debating all day. Since Tanzy is a moderator and AT the chief, I'm sure you guys know I don't log in often. Yesterday I'm on MC, today I'm not. I'm sure you have more important things to do as well.

Regarding the sue here sue there thing, I'm just reminding one to be careful as things can get out of hand if wrong things are said on the net.

But let's make just a few things clear.

"This is also not a place for you to vent your frustration when people rationally speak negatively against your product."

This is not my product. I just use it. I don't know who the distributors are or how they are doing. But one thing I'm sure is that I defend what I believe, just like what you are doing now, defending what you believe. Pardon me but I am a very very straighforward person. If somebody said something bad about other products I believe in, e.g. Seachem, I would most likely stand up against it too.

I'm sure there are lots of people out there having wonderful looking tanks without having to use the product, but I'm sure they are using some other unless of course their tank is the Ocean itself.

"he's not fondly called our wise old resident sea turtle for nothing"

"Wah, i think this is the first time i see sumone trying to debate with tanzy on topics like this"

Hmmm, maybe I'm right about the thesis thing since Tanzy is still a student. You know, students tend to debate more to bring across their theory (would you disagree?). I don't know what Tanzy is studying in UK and I'm not trying to be haughty, but if Tanzy is studying marine biology, no worries, a marine biologist teaching in a renown university is just beside me having a holiday break and I'm sure they can discuss in details about stuff like that. One may be knowledgeable in the subject, but everyone knows there are definitely somebody else better out there. You may have the theoretical credentials, but there's definitely someone out there having a more practical knowledge.

"Strontium and magnesium testkits as it is are not very accurate because of interference from calcium.

Since you advocate and remind all of us to use testkits, I will put it to you again, how do you dose trace elements without testing? Isn't that blind dosing if you can't determine the levels?"

Well, of course nothing is perfect, everybody knows that. Presuming I don't know how, can you then share with us how you do your trace element dosing? I'm sure many people out there would like to know how you do it since you are wise sea turtle and said this is not accurate and that is not reliable.

Don't you ever practice what you preach? How about you not make

biased "link-it-with-the-miracle-of-the-virgin-birth-products"? Ya, do your research! Basic maths and chemistry are all you need. You don't have to use a product to know if it works or not. Applying science and logical deduction, I can decide if a product will work or not. If I told you to add 1000mL of olive oil to your tank everyday for it to look good will you do it? Hopefully you'll say no way. Did you try and test it to find out if it works before you said no? What made you decide against it? Using your char kway teow analogy, if you see a hawker that adds a lot of salt and rotten cockles to the char kway teow, do you need to taste it to know that it will taste bad? How do you know? Isn't it by induction?

Hmmm....if you ask anybody to add the olive oil, of course they will say no. But if Seachem ask the user to add the intended amount, would he not do so? So let's hope you can differentiate between olive oil and marine products that the buyer trust because it works for him. Oh, with the 'char kway teow' thing, I'm trying to tell others that if they don't try it, how would they know.

"You don't have to use a product to know if it works or not."

Of course if it is the obvious or tons of people have use it and gave a bad feedback then there's no point using it. But how can one criticise a product before having the facts right and lump it with other products? It's like you hate this guy who has short hair because he has ill-treated you and you start to believe all men with short hair are bad people.

So you said that "if you see a hawker adds a lot salt and rotten cockles to the char kway teow, do you need to taste it to know that it will taste bad?"

How would you know the amount he add is too much for the amount of noodles he is cooking unless you taste it? Are you a better hawker to gauge the amount of salt added to the amount of noodles he is cooking? I didn't know that you have the sixth sense and can tell that the noodles are too salty and cockles are rotten before you even try it. So people, if you heed Tanzy's advice, start working on your sixth sense. So that before you go for a seafood buffet you can tell that their oysters are bad. If all of us can do this, food poisoning won't even exist in this world.

"I have nothing to fear. Have you seen the posts made on Reef.org or Reefcentral in USA? They are a hotbed for libel suits! Of course it won't hurt the sales of a product if a company attempts to sue a reefer, right?"

You really don't know what is going on huh. Issues with other companies we leave them since it's none of our concern.

Well, in the first place why would a company (doesn't matter what kind of company) want to sue somebody? Definitely because what he said would probably affect sales of the product. Simple.

Anyhow, I wished I could go on to cover all the issues, but I really got to leave it here. Will try to continue if I'm back.

Thanks Tanzy and AT, I really think this is a healthy debate that will keep our minds working.

Cheers

*edited by AT for easier reading*

Edited February 12, 2004 by Achilles Tang

[Achilles Tang]

I'm gonna edit your thread to make the quotes stand apart. It's quite confusing to read. Hope you don't mind.

[Achilles Tang]

Regarding the sue here sue there thing, I'm just reminding one to be careful as things can get out of hand if wrong things are said on the net.

Define 'wrong things'. Is expressing doubt in the claims of a product a crime? If I don't see coralline algae growing after using a Marc Weiss product that claims it will, can't the user express his disappointment and give a poor review?

This is not my product. I just use it. I don't know who the distributors are or how they are doing. .

That clears everyone's doubt that you're related to the product somehow then.

But one thing I'm sure is that I defend what I believe, just like what you are doing now, defending what you believe. Pardon me but I am a very very straighforward person. If somebody said something bad about other products I believe in, e.g. Seachem, I would most likely stand up against it too.

Personally, there are some products that I endorse and promote to other reefers to try. I also go through a process of learning what makes it work and what's effective about it compared to other options. I then give my own personal observations coupled with information on what the manufacturer claims. However, I won't 'defend' a product like how you would. It's quite unique for something that's hard to quantify or qualify. A bit like how burning essential oils is responsible for clearing my headaches. Or is it because I am relaxed enough so it goes away?

I'm sure there are lots of people out there having wonderful looking tanks without having to use the product, but I'm sure they are using some other unless of course their tank is the Ocean itself.

Yes, we both use calcium reactors and the occasional use of calcium chloride, kalkwasser, sodium bicarbonate to manage our tank's calcium needs.

Hmmm, maybe I'm right about the thesis thing since Tanzy is still a student. You know, students tend to debate more to bring across their theory (would you disagree?). I don't know what Tanzy is studying in UK and I'm not trying to be haughty, but if Tanzy is studying marine biology, no worries, a marine biologist teaching in a renown university is just beside me having a holiday break and I'm sure they can discuss in details about stuff like that.

I don't know what Tanzy's studying exactly but I know for a fact that his career path will see him making drugs (legal of course) and bringing him loads of money in the future. He is studying to be a chemist or pharmacist and that makes him far more qualified to expound on chemistry issues. He also helps in his dad's pharmaceutics company (oops Tanzy... confidential info?)

One may be knowledgeable in the subject, but everyone knows there are definitely somebody else better out there. You may have the theoretical credentials, but there's definitely someone out there having a more practical knowledge.

Funny that you say it but are you comparing yourself to him because this debate is about a product that has YOU and HIM talking about the qualities of a product and dissecting how it works.

I take my hat off to him because this guy never ceases to amaze me with his knowledge and experiences. And I am not saying that because his my best chum or something. Or that he is a mod.

Theoretical knowledge aside, he has been reefkeeping for some time too, keeping acroporas too. IMO, his grasp of advanced reefkeeping is not that of a newbie. He has practical knowledge.

How do you want to quantify your practical and theoretical knowledge with him? Compare tank photos? I give a written test on reef chemistry to the both of you? See who has invested in a better setup? Gee...

Since you advocate and remind all of us to use testkits, I will put it to you again, how do you dose trace elements without testing? Isn't that blind dosing if you can't determine the levels?"

Well, of course nothing is perfect, everybody knows that. Presuming I don't know how, can you then share with us how you do your trace element dosing? I'm sure many people out there would like to know how you do it since you are wise sea turtle and said this is not accurate and that is not reliable.

Err, yes. Which is why many of us don't even dose trace elements anymore once we understand their 'importance' in the grand scheme of things.

Don't you ever practice what you preach? How about you not make

QUOTE 

biased "link-it-with-the-miracle-of-the-virgin-birth-products"?

Err... tanzy.. take it away.

Hmmm....if you ask anybody to add the olive oil, of course they will say no. But if Seachem ask the user to add the intended amount, would he not do so? So let's hope you can differentiate between olive oil and marine products that the buyer trust because it works for him. Oh, with the 'char kway teow' thing, I'm trying to tell others that if they don't try it, how would they know.

A newbie reefer will probably buy every product that promises miracles to try out. I know what it's like because I was once was.

An experienced reefer will know what DOESN'T need to be bought. What DOESN'T work as claimed and most importantly, KNOW why it doesn't WORK or how it DOES WORK.

What has instructions on how to dose got to do with believing what the product says it does??

QUOTE

"You don't have to use a product to know if it works or not."

Of course if it is the obvious or tons of people have use it and gave a bad feedback then there's no point using it. But how can one criticise a product before having the facts right and lump it with other products? It's like you hate this guy who has short hair because he has ill-treated you and you start to believe all men with short hair are bad people.

So you said that "if you see a hawker adds a lot salt and rotten cockles to the char kway teow, do you need to taste it to know that it will taste bad?"

How would you know the amount he add is too much for the amount of noodles he is cooking unless you taste it? Are you a better hawker to gauge the amount of salt added to the amount of noodles he is cooking? I didn't know that you have the sixth sense and can tell that the noodles are too salty and cockles are rotten before you even try it.

I loved the hokkien mee at the coffee shop until i discovered a cockroach inside. I tell everyone I know to be careful about that store. To date, my wife will never buy from that store again. The mee is still delicious.

So people, if you heed Tanzy's advice, start working on your sixth sense. So that before you go for a seafood buffet you can tell that their oysters are bad. If all of us can do this, food poisoning won't even exist in this world.

Okie, I will ignore my sixth sense and eat the cockroach mee.

Seriously man, your logic is flawed. You want to wait till your reef tank crashes before you deduce a product sucks? Have you ever heard of placebos and snake oil? It doesn't just apply to reef products.

I still laugh at my wife's purchase of the Osim fat reducing gadget with the sticky pads to help trim an inch more off her tiny waist already.

You really don't know what is going on huh. Issues with other companies we leave them since it's none of our concern.

It's our concern because there are some things as consumer rights and unlucky for many of us, we don't have consumer protection laws like the USA because there are many products that I have bought in my life that don't work as advertised!

Well, in the first place why would a company (doesn't matter what kind of company) want to sue somebody? Definitely because what he said would probably affect sales of the product. Simple.

Surely, if the company can prove beyond a doubt that the product WORKS 100% as claimed and the consumer's claim is baseless.

A thousand reefers and myself are still waiting for a lawyer's letter from the people who created Marinesnow and Combisan because we tell others what we know about the almost zero nutritional values of these products. Heck, I even know the distributor of the products here in Singapore and he was in my house yesterday! He should have killed me there and then!

Anyhow, I wished I could go on to cover all the issues, but I really got to leave it here. Will try to continue if I'm back.

Thanks Tanzy and AT, I really think this is a healthy debate that will keep our minds working.

I don't even know why I'm drawn into this healthy debate... I must be too free! See you later, dude!!

[Tanzy]

I'm not very free to engage in a battle of wits here but I like intellectual debates too. Although I must admit I find this rather trivial and my interest is wearing thin. Therefore, I will focus on the main points only at this point in time to keep the ball rolling. I may revisit the other points when it is suitable.

1. Trace element

1.1 Dosing of trace element

I said:

Assuming that the above premise is true. Wouldn't blind dosing of elements create an inbalance in the water that deviates from Mother Nature? Since different tanks and system utilise elements and nutrients differently, how can you replace and element you cannot measure to ensure that it is in the correct natural range?

You replied:

you said "how can you replace and element you cannot measure".....errrrrrr.....Do you know what test kits are for??? Don't make the lovely creatures in your tank suffer, use test kits please.

I countered:

Since you advocate and remind all of us to use testkits, I will put it to you again, how do you dose trace elements without testing? Isn't that blind dosing if you can't determine the levels?

You spewed forth:

Well, of course nothing is perfect, everybody knows that. Presuming I don't know how, can you then share with us how you do your trace element dosing? I'm sure many people out there would like to know how you do it since you are wise sea turtle and said this is not accurate and that is not reliable.

In response:

You are merely begging the question and not answering my question. You are trying to dodge the issue by asking me the same question I posed to you twice before, so for the third time I will ask you, being consistent with your much stressed need for test to be carried out, how do you measure the levels and dose trace elements?

To satisfy you, I will answer your question. I don't dose trace elements precisely because I can't measure it. The ball is still in your court.

1.2 Concentration of Trace element in Ocean's Blend

If you are dosing an element, you must know how much to put in the tank. In order to add the desired amount, you need to know the amount present or concentration of the element in the additive being dosed. As far as I know, there are no published figures concerning the concentration of individual trace elements in the abovementioned product. Wouldn't you concede that the use of this product is blind dosing since you have no idea how much, if any, trace elements you are dumping into the tank?

1.3 Trace element toxicity

Let me remind you that trace elements are metabolic poisons in slightly higher than normal trace concentration found in the sea. They also consist of many heavy metals where their accumulation is a confounding problem in mature tanks, especally linked to "Old Tank Syndrome". It seems that our tanks may not be in short supply of these elements. Fortunately, most trace element supplements are only water so the only harm done is to the wallet.

2. Logic

2.1 False predicate and epistemological problem

You said:

... comments when a person haven't even try it. And please do more research before making apparent argumentative comments/statements.

(If you don't try the Char Kway Teow offer by the food stall, how do you know whether his Char Keow Teow is good or bad?)

Your proposition is that one must have direct and physical experience before an opinion can be deduced. Basically, you are an empiricist.

I do not agree, therefore I challenged:

If I told you to add 1000mL of olive oil to your tank everyday for it to look good will you do it? Hopefully you'll say no way. Did you try and test it to find out if it works before you said no? What made you decide against it?

Your cogent reply:

Hmmm....if you ask anybody to add the olive oil, of course they will say no.

Again, I will ask you why you choose to answer 'no'. How did you arrive at this firm conclusion even without having empirically making certain of it? Isn't this contradictory to your proposition you predicated?

I believe one can induce a fact based on the laws of nature i.e. science, without having to experience it, therefore it is not a requirement for me to have prior experience of use with this product to comment on it's efficacy just as you have never used olive oil in your tank. I have ways to know if a char kway teow (CKT) is good or bad without having to taste it.

Also, you deviated by bringing up Seachem:

if Seachem ask the user to add the intended amount, would he not do so?So let's hope you can differentiate between olive oil and marine products that the buyer trust because it works for him.

We are not discussing the amount of product to add here. The main point is if the product will even live up to it's claims and if we can find out without using it. I hope you are not saying that because something is a marine product, therefore it will work and olive oil being a non-marine product therefore it won't work. I doubt you are as naive as that, so how do you know olive oil won't work?

2.2 Faulty analogy

Although I am not in favour of the CKT analogy but since you brought it up I haved tried to accomodate and use it. Like I mentioned in 2.1, I can induce if CKT will taste good or bad. In an attempt to illustrate this point earlier on I said :

if you see a hawker that adds a lot of salt and rotten cockles to the char kway teow, do you need to taste it to know that it will taste bad? How do you know?

This is really a rhetorical question and I am not expecting a direct reply anyway.

But you gave me this:

How would you know the amount he add is too much for the amount of noodles he is cooking unless you taste it? Are you a better hawker to gauge the amount of salt added to the amount of noodles he is cooking? I didn't know that you have the sixth sense and can tell that the noodles are too salty and cockles are rotten before you even try it. So people, if you heed Tanzy's advice, start working on your sixth sense. So that before you go for a seafood buffet you can tell that their oysters are bad. If all of us can do this, food poisoning won't even exist in this world.

Like I said, I don't need sixth sense, maybe I do, my 5 senses and my sixth sense; Logic, not some psychic/ESP thingie as you are suggesting. You are deliberately dwelling on the inconsequential to evade the topic but I can tell you using my visual and olfactory sense I can see that the hawker is adding too much salt or that the cockles are rotten. As this is only an analogy we are assuming the extreme. My point is how do you know, assuming that the hawker is adding loads of salt and using rotten cockles that the CKT will taste awful without having to taste it? I know, because I use my '6th sense' i.e. logic to induce that it won't be good.

Do you like oysters? I love oysters. I'm a little oyster connoisseur myself. Please heed hotbod999's advice to heed my advise to use your logic to prevent food poisoning. If the oyster smells bad, you don't have to taste it to know that it is bad. If a product is scientifically unable to meet it's claim, it won't whether you have tried it or not.

Analogies can only be pushed so far. They will never be an accurate representation of the idea.

2.3 Bizaare assertion

You claim I said, in your words: "Oh, so you are trying to say those people keeping SPS cannot keep LPS? Then it's time for us LPS keepers to throw away our LPS!".

I don't understand how you came to this conclusion and put words in my mouth. I implore that you follow your own advice to "If you don't understand, please read more before you make comments". I asked you to explain before how you derive this (have you actually tasted me before?) but you ignored that request.

3. Misc (not important)

3.1 Double DI water

Me: what the heck is DOUBLE Deionized water?

You: If you don't understand, please read more before you make comments

I asked:For the benefit of others and in the name of science, please explain the rationale behind double DI water?

You did not answer so I must press on:

Assuming you are well read and being consistent to your advice, since you posted the about double DI water and having berated me at my ignorance with double DI water, I want you to tell me the significance and rational behind using double DI water and how the thing works.

3.2 Regarding product endorsement

I never blindly buy a product based on brand except Prada. I scrutinise all products and look for the scientific basis of the action. If they are found wanting or does not meet the claims made by manufacturers, I feel it is a benefit to all that I share this assessment. As a moderator, for creditability, I remain as inpartial as possible. I don't even get discounts from the sponsors.

3.3 Hypocrisy

You stated the lofty idea that: please do more research before making apparent argumentative comments/statements.

Obviously it doesn't apply to yourself, does it?

In case you are adamant and ask for examples,

"it claimed that those unused minerals etc will dissolved itself by it's matrix (or something like that). "

Did you do YOUR research?

"It is the closest trace element additive to the ocean."

Did you do YOUR research?

"First, if you have done your research, you will realise that http://www.alphamarinereef.com/public/oceans_blend.html is not the manufacturer's website.

The manufacturer's website is www.oceansblend.com. This can be found simply by typing ocean's blend in a search engine. Very simple."

Concerning this, it was you who posted the URL. You gave 3 URLs in your initial product review and none of them were www.oceansblend.com. Deliberate or accidental, only you know for sure. I must express my surprise that you left out the most important URL, since, I quote you, it is so 'simple'. This is a minor issue.

3.4 Research

You use the word 'research' many times. It seems you have a fetish for it. You implicitly suggested that I do not do enough research and am not well studied. Let me tell you a fact; I'm sick of research. I work in the bloody lab day in day out! I have my own set of equipment which cost ­£1500. I do anti-cancer drug screening and I read tons of papers and journals. I have cancer cells for pets in little flasks sitting in the incubator. Of course this is totally irrelevant to the topic at hand but since you love research, I thought I'll humor you. In case you might want to know, I've read every creditable reef keeping book there is on the market. The books are on the shelf next to my tank. Some reefers here have seen them. Honestly, I find them antiquated and continue to update myself through reefkeeping and advanced aquarist online magazines. I do occasionally browse marine biology journals which my school has online access to. I do this because this is my passion, as I hope is yours too.

3.5 Authoritative knowledge

You only need at most A level chemistry to tackle the problems here. You don't need some degree or PhD in marine chemistry.

This is in my opinion not going to be a healthy debate. If it does not degenerate into an altercation it will most likely be an attrition exercise where the opponents grind each other down by sure will power. I've wasted a lot of my life posting in this thread and I am not a happy camper.

[corrado]

Hi HB

after skimming through your argument.

my bones (quote PM Goh) can feel that you

definitely has some sort of commercial

interest in OB.

Good plot but isn't it too obvious?

your subsequent defence simply gave yourself

away.

Now,we are all dying to see your write-up on marc weiss.

Peace and sadly, SRC has no room for errant products.

[Achilles Tang]

Peace, Corrado, let's just take him up on his word ok? If he says he is not related in anyway to this Ocean's Blend product, then let's give him the benefit of doubt that he's not lying to us.

I look forward to a clear succinct reply point by point by our proposition speaker, Mr Hotbod!

Its clearly an intellect debate here so lets not get too emotional or the fun will go out of it!

[Alpha]

Looks hot in here. I guess we all would appreciate if hotbod999 would stop defending. No offence hotbod, but my advice to you is: please leave ocean blend and other products on their own. Whether reefers would want to try them or not, leave it to them.

[Achilles Tang]

Hi Alpha, you're new here! Welcome to SRC!

[flubberina13]

Mmm...this seems interesting...never had a thread stir my reading interest more than the Corals Sales thread...

Give it your best shot, men...

[corrado]

Hi HB

My words are perhaps too undiplomatic.

just some friendly sparring.

always better to die here than learning the hard way.

*hand shake*

without prejudice.

*sent off* haha.

[Achilles Tang]

Ocean’s Blend is different from other products such that it combats algae by containing no nitrates or phosphates, precipitating phosphates, having a low iron content, and, get this, it uses Reverse Osmosis / DOUBLE Deionized water !

Besides the DOUBLE Deionized water properties (whatever it means), the claim that it COMBATS algae is not entirely accurate because it it is not an active agent that 'attacks' the growth of algae.

It's properties are just neutral ... not fueling any growth of algae as would most good additive brands are expected not to.

If precipitating phosphates is considered 'combating' algae, kalkwasser should be consider a weed killer then!

[smpolyp]

Hi I am from Oceans Blend. I feel disapointed in this thread. Not for the fact that someone slammed my product,but the fact it has brought a fewed among aqaurist. Honestly I could not finish reading the post. I would really just like to say how I got started with the bis and leave it for you to judge yourself.

One day one of my friends ask me what I dosed to my tank. I told him I made my own. He asked if he could get some and soon so many aquarist were asking for it it turned into a bis. You can try it if you would like,but please don't get at each other.

[Chad]

I am a customer of Oceans Blend and I heard about this thread. I have used OB additives for the past 2 years on my 125 gal reef I have had excellent SPS and clam growth. As far as I know he makes no claims on his products that are not true, and there are hundreds of users of OB here in the U.S. that can testify to the efficacy of his products. I can provide tank pics of mine and others if there are doubters.

P.S. If you are having difficulty keeping your calcium level up I suggest a refresher course in cal/alk balance:

Advanced Aquarist - Solving Ca & Alk problems

P.P.S. Double deIonization is simply the use of 2 deIonization filters in one filtration unit - the second is used as a 'backup' and it allows the first DI cartridge to exhaust completely without compromising water quality and thereby gives more life to the first cartridge. It's not rocket science, guys.

[Tanzy]

Welcome to SRC, smpolyp from distant ORCA and Chad (from CORA?). I guess some one here told/informed you of this thread, which is good because the main proponent of the product is doing a piss-poor job of promoting it and so far has been bringing more negativity to it than necessary.

There is no feud intended. I was trying to give a critique of the product based on the claims posted by hotbod999 and the webpages he mentioned. It's unfortunate that some one has to up the ante and be too emotionally involved resulting in this unfriendliness. Anyway, it's mostly between two parties only, so it isn't a forum wide affair, if that will help you sleep better.

It is in my opinion, that the claims made by Ocean's Blend have been exaggerated. I do not doubt its ability as a Two-part to maintain calcium and alkalinity, as any Two-part should. I'm sure there are many satisfied user out there that have stunning tanks, but that is because this product is a good Two-parts, nothing more. Just to bring up one point, I do not think that your product will be able to precipitate phosphate to a significant extent because the calcium part of the solutions cannot have a sufficiently high pH to convert hydrogenphosphates to phosphate to be precipitated as calcium phosphate unlike limewater which has both a high pH and saturation of calcium.

Also, I am not a big fan of adding trace elements as I do not know how much I am adding and also I don't know what are their levels in the tank. The only thing I add to the tank that I cannot measure is food. This alone will make me avoid products with nearly the whole periodic table in it's list of ingredients except for salts, where I don't have a choice.

I understand that you may or may not wish to defend your product, be it for good business sense or principle, it's OK. It doesn't bother me either way. Picking a fight is the least of my priorities right now but may I know who is the distributor of Ocean's Blend in Singapore?

[smpolyp]

I'm glad things have calmed down. This way we can discus things without distraction. Yes calcium chloride does not have as high of a pH as kalk. Percipitation of phosphates happens at the oxidation of the addition. Again not at high level,but some aqaurist do not have phosphate problems. Since it does happen we let the aquarist know. Not all aquarist know so we print it. As for the elements. Most of the elements are at trace amounts. A few years ago it was brought up at a conference that all manufactures should tell what is in thier bottles. we took lab test from our chemicals added and printed them on the bottle. Trace amounts or not. If there is anything hookey you feel about I will try to explain. As for the claims. I had an aqaurist that used Oceans Blend write it. He is Goby(Michael) from RC. A sceptic just like you and me.

[sinner]

shall i try this?

[ckevin]

I don't know what Tanzy is studying in UK and I'm not trying to be haughty, but if Tanzy is studying marine biology, no worries, a marine biologist teaching in a renown university is just beside me having a holiday break and I'm sure they can discuss in details about stuff like that.

Hotbod999,

Weak...very weak. Sounds so much like the helpless outbursts i had when i was younger. "I'll call upon so and so... and i know who's who." My advice for you : Fight your own war if you dare to start one. You get to keep your dignity even if the war is lost.

[Achilles Tang]

lol. Ckevin, you revived this thread!

I wonder where Hotbod999 is now... he has become rather silent!

I'm still waiting for his point by point counter-argument on Tanzy's reply thread.

[ckevin]

AT,

Well.. i wouldn't expect very much from Hotbod999. It is obvious from his last few outbursts that he has little to substantiate his arguments.

Moreover, he was clever to have set himself for a quick exit by saying that he had lot more important stuff to do than quibble.

Hey ! Wait.... , i suspect that this little action is orchestrated by You. Clever...very shrewd, AT.

While Hotbod999's comic repertoire provided entertainment, Tanzy exibited knowledge and poised .Once again winning him important support and respect. Tanzy's replies were well articulated and informed. (I am sure many reefers learnt a thing or two).

Hotbot999 must have been HOT on his heels when Tanzy challenged him to a point by point debate. However, the move to quote Hotbod999 is a flaw in the script as it only incapacitated his chances to rebuke.( it is obvious who is spouting nonsense after Tanzy arranged the 'who said what' in order.) It resulted in instant death! Using his last breath..Hotbod999 called upon his 'alliances' to fight a battle he should not have started. IMO, this could have come in a little later as we were all enjoying the drama.

I appluad you, Boss. Hmm.. You did mastermind this.. or did you not? Anyway, i would be looking forward to Sequel 2 .

[Achilles Tang]

I think you are a bored bored man. Don't you have better things to do in life rather than think up of new conspiracy theories?

Sequel 2? I'm already writing the prequels... it's called... "Funky O Mud, if its good enough for spa treatments, its good enough for your reef!"

[porc]

P.P.S. Double deIonization is simply the use of 2 deIonization filters in one filtration unit - the second is used as a 'backup' and it allows the first DI cartridge to exhaust completely without compromising water quality and thereby gives more life to the first cartridge. It's not rocket science, guys.

double deionized water and double distilled water is being used in biological labs to achieve a certain level of purity of water, as called for by certain experimental protocols.

not rocket science but definitely has rocket science uses...

[Siput]

I am probably way out of line here (or call me a conspiracy theorist as well!), but doesn't it seem the language used by HB and the 2 "supporters" (of which one is the inventor! - I am suitably impressed!) are the same?

Or where in the world would one find 2 supporters appearing just 2 hours apart suddenly in a thread spanning 2 weeks?

Please donch sue me as I am the typical downtrodden poor!

[Achilles Tang]

Siput,

I checked the IPs of both of them and they correspond to different ISPs from the USA.

I guess you can put to rest any doubts about the identities of these two supporters.

[Siput]

Ok...my bad!

Apologies...

[smpolyp]

I'm sorry for being so out of it for personal reasons. I forgot to add Lanthanum chloride percipitates phosephate. I use it in my ingredients. If anyone knows someone that works at a large aquarium (in the USA Disney's Living Seas, Sea World) they can ask them about this usage. Thank you again for this topic so we can discus a hobby we all love and share.