Desperate for Help!!!

[eDen]

Specs:

1) 5 feet tank

2) sea water (purchased)

3) rocks (30-40kg)

4) some soft & hard corals + anemonie (before they die off & I ran out of $$$)

5) fishes (the few that still survived - survival rate < 10%!!!)

6) started the tank since Feb this year

7) weekly dosage of a) Pro-series Calcium Pro-series Trace Element c) Sera Stress Protection d) Nutrafin Cycle e) AquaPharm Hydro-safe f) AquaPharm Bio-Element. About 4-5 caps each.

8) test (hydrometer, NO2, NH3 & NH4 test showed that water seem ok). However, sometimes cannot add water everyday - sometimes every 2-3 days...

9) filtration system - overflow type with filter tank below (filled with bio-balls). Sprinkle system. As the water goes from bottom of the tank through a 'passage-way' to the overflow, I previously had the problem losing my fishes through this trap (got suck in)......I have since used some plastic net to block them.

Description of problem:-

With the exception of the few cheap coral fish that I bought initially when I started the aquarium, every other fishes that I introduce DISAPPEARED after 1-2 days. Very often, as soon as the fishes were introduced into the tank, they will hide in the rocks and I don't see them again!!! Gobies, Butterflyfish, etc..... Ocassionally, I saw them for a few days and then they disappear......don't even see the bodies!!! The only fishes that stayed with me for a long time is 4 clown fish (3 different species) + 1 damsel fish + 2 shrimps......poor lonely fellows!

Last week, I decide give it another try.....so I decided to buy a batch of clown fishes (cheap kind) - 2 species (supposed to be imported and from local water).... just to test one more time (previously I always add a few at a time)......the 1st night was OK.......good thing about clown fish is that they dont hide in the rocks.....but after 2 nights notice these fishes were not well (some kind of white fungus appear on the skin) & very soon they just die off........after barely 5 days.....I only have 2 of the 13 left!!!

Q1: Suspect that something could be wrong with the water, but what puzzled me is that why some of the fishes had survived > 3 months but others can't even survive for 48 hours?

Q2: Is there something I miss? What other supplements I should add on top of those that I am adding? What other test can I use to check the water condition?

Q3: How to do a total change of water (that is if it is necessary!!!)? Is it a good idea to purchase sea water again? Some said that using salt + water is safer - but the problem I have is that how am I going to find another 5 feet tank to mature the water!!!

Q4: Anybody can solve this mystery??? I will be really thankful.

[FuEl]

I think the problem is that you are stocking too fast. StoP adding anything for now and let your tank stabilise for another month. Meanwhile cut down feeding to once every 2-3 days, do your weekly water changes, you might want to consider upgrading your protein skimmer and maybe get a tunze turbelle or a powerhead to increase water circulation..

"after barely 5 days.....I only have 2 of the 13 left!!!"

Adding 13 fish at once, even in a 10 year old marine tank is suicide.

[bubble_gum]

are u using a skimmer??? didnt say abt it? DSB? how long did u cycle ur tank? ur water parameters wad u mean by being "ok"?

[FuEl]

Don't add supplements unless they are really neccessary and you know what they are for. Use the money to buy quality test kits by reputable brands like Salifert. Frankly the only supplements you will need are anti-chlorine(Eg. Seachem prime), Reef Builder by Seachem or anything that will increase kH, and calcium additives (Eg. Calcium advantage by Seachem). Of cause you will also need the kH and calcium test kits.

Do some reading up in the 'sticky' threads in the "new to the hobby" section while waiting for your tank to settle down. Will save you further disappointment.

[Cedric]

Where do you stay?

[siglap]

though you bought the seawater it is still better to let it run for a while so as to cutivate the beneficial bacteria. acclimatisation of the livestock will have to be implemented .also test your water before you add the supplements. over dosage might also be lethal.

some fishes are naturally hardy, and the fishes in your tank now would be considered hardy. and a fish that has been in the tank longer would actually be more accustomed to the tank condition than newly introduced fishes. so its not that suprising that the 3 mth old fish is fairing better than the new ones.

seawater in my opinion would be better than your own salt water mixture. and a 100% water change would be too drastic. maybe you should do it gradually.

[typrobin]

i have no idea where u got your seawater from...u might wanna check the source of the water....

white fungus seems like some disease, not too sure, might be parasites in the water....only think i can think of right now is to quarantine your LS(including corals) for 1mth....leave them in a separate tank.....meanwhile change 100% of the water in your display tank and cyle it....try to find if there is any mantis shrimps or other big crabs inside....

stop adding fishes, u have no idea where it went to so i believe u did not get the corpse out >> ammonia spike >> more deaths >> more ammonia spike!!!

the best thing is to stop doing anything....do not add any additives tat u cannot test....

[Siput]

Stocking is way too fast....should have started with LR alone for about 1 mth followed by fish at a rate of about 1-2 inches per week (longer duration better, but most pple too impatient - admittedly including myself! ) - this translates into at most 1 small fish a week. Finally when parameters have settled down and stabilised after several months then conisder the corals. Any sooner u shld restrict to softies like mushrooms and buttons which are tougher. Problem is that when lifestock die and are not removed, the effect is cumulative and contributes to the death of the remaining lifestick due to such things like ammonium spike, etc. Also some species of lifestock release toxins after death.

Having done and said all that, of your fishes have gone missing do not discount the possibility also of an unwanted hitchhiker like a mantis shrimp - or perhaps when your fish die there are lot's of scavangers like crabs, etc in your tank.

Advise on additives by the others also sound; essentially do your research first and see what u want as an end result and work towards that; if it is a FOWLR system, then can dispense with almost all your additives.

Cheers!

[typrobin]

u also mentioned the few remaining survivors are damsels and clown....pls remember these fishes are commandos, they don't die unless there is really something terrible in your tank....

[Nautical]

Are you using a chiller ? If negative, you may be cooking your livestock slowly.

What is the tank temperature ?

[blueheaven]

please do not EVER buy a batch of fishes!!!!!

especially to "test", they are LIVING ORGANISMS for gods sake!!!

your nutrient load might be too much for the bacteria to process

[aStRoBo|]

i dun trust sea water purchased from LFS, unless they can be trusted. do ur own mixed, i once bought seawater too, all fish dun last. And when u buy fish and add into ur tank, pls dun pour the water in the bag into ur tank. MHO.

[vicky]

firstly it wont be temp or the fish fault . it could be your anemone dead , so sudden ammonia spike .and u bought the water (purchased) , it is quite dangerous to buy from a Lfs u dont trust alot . check nitrate , ph and kh , ammonia and salinity . fish usually die due to water parameters .

maybe this advice not proper.

u can restart everything by doing a 100% water change slowly , then put in your own mixing water and let in cycle for one month . it will save time .

and pls dont put anymore fish liao . wait it will burst your money into flames .

wish u good luck and dont give u p. keep on trying ...

[tineng]

wish u good luck and dont give u p. keep on trying ...

yeah....keep trying---SLOWLY.....and never in batches.....

[kschew1498]

Very worried when I see your mis-fortune! I guess patience is very important in this hobby!

Brother....dont give up.......try out all the advise given by thees gurus! and be patience!

[Zero Oxygen]

Take out your bio ball too..........

[Nautical]

Okay, everybody learns from their own mistake, be it innocent or otherwise. In this case Bro eDen bought a batch of clown fishes. This is not meant to criticize the person as it is not fair to "punish" twice for the same mistake.

But what is really sad to know and perhaps should take part or most of the blame is the LFS who sold the fishes. Any responsible and reasonable thinking LFS, especially with the intent to retain their customers, should advise or ask "Why buy so many fishes at one single time?" Especially the LFS in this business should reasonably assume the customer is not buying for distribution to his friends, but meant to be introduced into the same tank is going to cause a surge in the bioload.

Reefers in hobby and LFS in business are partners, and each should learn to scratch each other's back. Otherwise how to earn each other's trust and sustain a good relationship ?

My two cents worth ... IMHO

[nicholasloh]

Are your rocks like clustered in this thick pile, with tiny holes in between? Cos like they might be trapped inside lor. And then the bristleworms will have a snack or a feast. And the white fugus most likely is due to infection after being cut by the rocks or being beaten up by the fishes. And seriously 13 fishes is too much. Plus did you make sure that they are in good condition, able to eat and disease-free? If so, then probably there's something wrong with the rocks and its inhabitants. Cos my tank also use to have lots of bristleworms, then it keep eating the fishes in the tank. Then i did a mass clean-up and caught out the bristleworms. Plus, I think maybe you shouldn't be feeding that much liao lor, cos at night the not-so-good inhabitants will feed on it and grow even bigger, then it will then be more capable of feeding on your fish, or at least injuring them.

[nicholasloh]

nautical, i doubt there are such good LFS owners in S'pore. I know that a lot of US ones are actually really advising their customers. They even help look out for fishes that eat well for their customers. Plus, they will quarantine their fishes for 3 days, even though they will lose like 40% of their livestock.

And maybe u guys shouldn't be like giving him so much pressure. He most likely is feeling very anguished and crushed. Definitely not a good feeling. I have felt that way before when the reefers here keep saying stuff without even understanding the situation. Dun take it like they have sth against u, k?

[ReDDeviLs]

you can take your chance to do rescape too!

as for good LFS like bro nicholas mention:

i think henry from marine life have the quality of what a good lfs should have.

[Dispar_Anthias]

Are your rocks like clustered in this thick pile, with tiny holes in between? Cos like they might be trapped inside lor. And then the bristleworms will have a snack or a feast. And the white fugus most likely is due to infection after being cut by the rocks or being beaten up by the fishes. And seriously 13 fishes is too much. Plus did you make sure that they are in good condition, able to eat and disease-free? If so, then probably there's something wrong with the rocks and its inhabitants. Cos my tank also use to have lots of bristleworms, then it keep eating the fishes in the tank. Then i did a mass clean-up and caught out the bristleworms. Plus, I think maybe you shouldn't be feeding that much liao lor, cos at night the not-so-good inhabitants will feed on it and grow even bigger, then it will then be more capable of feeding on your fish, or at least injuring them.

FYI bristle dun eat fishes unless you fish are already sickly or dying....... that mother nature, from what you say i think your water has so problem too as fishes are weak and dying......... If you really dislike bristle, can pass them to me, they are good scavenger and dertivores you know

[nicholasloh]

They do eat fishes if the fishes are motionless when trapped in the rocks.

[Dispar_Anthias]

They do eat fishes if the fishes are motionless when trapped in the rocks.

Eh fish dn get trap in there for no reason..... They must be stress for some reason

[FuEl]

I have a bristleworm in my tank that is gargantuan...has'nt done any damage but to steal pebbles and stuff to seal its burrow.

[Siput]

I have a bristleworm in my tank that is gargantuan...has'nt done any damage but to steal pebbles and stuff to seal its burrow.

Just how large is it?