Urgent Help!!

[Hon]

Okie..My turn to step in liao.....What a nasty mess you got there, Ernie...

Actually for a 30L tank, use live rock to start the cycle is more than enough, they are enough die-off to kick-start the nitrogen cycle. You must have used a giant tiger prawn for your case ......

First of all, your ammonia is way off the scale. Do a massive or 100% water change as soon as possible and don't move or wash the LR in fresh water. Remove all dead crabs, worms and stars.

Refill with new mix salt water, add power head and an airstone, of cause must connect to an air-pump hor ... Let the tank cycle from here for 1 day.

Add half a tea spoon (not table spoon hor) of common table white sugar(your kopi sugar) the 2nd day. The water should get cloudy by the 4th day as the baterial bloom should have occurred. Let the water clear by itself, maybe 2-3 day, and remove the airstone. Check your NH4, NO2, ignore NO3 for now as anaerobic will not have established.

Do minor water change and wait every 3-4days after the last stage ....

Don't scare scare okie... be patience ...

[Ernie]

Hi Iona,

you are right about some of the vital minor information that are required. Only when you start to do the actual cycling, will the questions pop-up.

same as you, i have been actively reading in this forum and few others

guess i learnt it the hard way.....

6th day.

Good news

The water in the tank miraculously cleared, though there is a residual yellowish tint (, a bit like magic

the stench is greatly reduced, its still there but only above the water surface.

LR still have slimy layer, no live sign visible

water level is much lower, due to more evaporation as the shifting of the spray bar causes alot of surface agitation, not to mention the foaming, like cake man

the main change is just the spray bar position

Thanks everyone!!! ...think everything should be okay rite? or should i do the recommended water change?

also do i need a power head, as the eheim 2213 seems like pretty strong for my 33L tank?

Thanks again.....everyone

[Achilles Tang]

Please stop using those bottled bacteria. They aren't even the right kind of bacteria for marine tank. They just go in to add to the dead bioload.

Any documentation that supports this? I haven't come across anything that says the bacteria strains are not suitable for marine... even reputable German companies like Dupla has their own versions.

[lona]

Hi all,

So after reading some of the issues, esp with ernie's case, I've got a plan put in place, although most plans don't go my way , thought I'd pen it down and see what everyone says. Bawater kindly answered some of my questions, so I'll prb be using some of his responses. Comments are most definitely welcome.

I've got a 3x1x1ft tank, 22.5gal. Based on a bare minimum shoestring budget, my tank eventually should have a DSB(abt 4in high, 7.5gal vol), and 6.1gal LR, 6.1gal water, 2-3 small fish, 1-2 cleaner/snails, maybe BIG maybe 1-2 corals..(small budget mah..next time got more confidence do nicer one like this forum's founder lar hee hee). I leave 2.8gal (1.5in) height from top no water. Cover with a mesh to prevent any suicides. Ok the plan is this:

1. Mix the salt and water, fill tank.

2. Buy powerhead, 2x 125 l/h (or anything around that range)

3. Install powerheads and run.

4. Buy 2in layer worth of #1 sand, wash clean clean in fresh water, chuck into the tank.

5. Buy 2kg of LR, clean off algae, chuck into tank. Since it's been mentioned for small tank LR will have natural die off, ammonia should be enough, right?

6. Wait 2 weeks.

7. Buy another 2in sand, 1kg rock, repeat and chuck into tank.

8. Monitor levels everyday, top up water, clean tank, LR arrangement, hope for the best. Anything goes wrong consult everyone here.

9. Wait 2 weeks/levels go down, whichever is later.

10. Add 1 and ONLY 1 fish..maybe a clown? Wait 1 week see what happens..

11. Repeat step 10..but with other things like cleaners or fish till targetted stock..

Well? What does everyone think? Did I cover about everything? I mean..it's a humble tank..but it's a tank I can call my own..

Of course now everything theory lar..sure got prb come up..but at least I want to be sure I got everything covered before I start..don't want any casualties..bad karma..

Thanks for reading this long post guys..

[Achilles Tang]

Hi Lona (hey... are you female?)

Nothing really wrong with the above method.

However, if your LR is kinda cured already (take it out and smell.. if it smells like the sea... it is cured... if it stinks... it isn't)... you can't count on it to have enough ammonia to kickstart the nitrogen cycle. It could be a very small/short cycle, generating just enough bacteria to finish the cycle... but once you start stocking up.... you'll be creating another cycle... and hopefully, the bacteria will build up faster enough to cope with the increase bioload... or your ammonia levels or nitrite levels would end up killing your livestock.

The prawn method is a proven one, instead of using livestock (which could be cruel to some people).

[lona]

Hi Achilles Tang,

Nope I'm true blue straight male..(lemme confirm..*looks down*)..heh..ya..last check still male..

So anyways, looks like I'll have to see how it goes right:

If cured put in prawn, if not cured shouldn't really need prawn..am I understanding you correct?

At any rate, would most places sell cured rock? Is there a diff in price? Do people usually go for cured or uncured...sounds like cured seems like a safer way to go.

How long can I wait before stocking after the levels have gone down? Cos I'm not sure whether I can go out to get fish immediately after the levels have gone down..might need a few days to arrange my schedule..

[Achilles Tang]

hmmm... heh... lona just sounds feminine... sorry hope you are not offended!

Anyway... to answer you... whether the LR is cured or not... you still need to jumpstart the cycle. Just enough rotting material to create ammonia. Not to the point you crash your tank!

Most LR will become cured over time if they are left at the LFS curing facility. Most come in as uncured LR, with loads of dying sponges, algae and other fauna on them. They are removed by the LFS and then dumped into curing bins... so it depends how long they came in and when you bought them.

Once your cycle finishes, you can stock right away. But do it slowly to let the necessary bacteria grow accordingly to cope with the bioload.

Most tanks take about a year to mature... and will go through usual cynano, dino, nuisance algae blooms... unless you are using good skimmers to help with filtration.

[lona]

heh..none taken not to worry. I've read that it in fact IS a female name..but the history of my nickname is long..and another story..

Anyways, response to your answer..I mean..how do I know enough is just enough..if say I put in an uncured rock..and even that is too much..and the levels jump, (that's why I wanted to do 2kg then 1kg see...maybe I should do 1kg first) then how?

Oh and by the way..I keep wondering, during the cycling, I should do the 20-25% water changes as well right, just to confirm? I mean, regardless the levels I should still change the water, clean up the tank, remove dead stuff?

Oh and thanks for your info, really appreciate it..notice you're a diver too..I've been wanting to take up my advanced, but have to wait for my gf..and it's been so long since I got my basic..and it was local some more..*sad*..I'm just waiting for her so that we can go overseas to dive.

[Achilles Tang]

Dun change water during cycling unless you get to a toxic stage like Ernie's (by then it's too late to save the LR).

Just make sure that you only monitor salinity and PH coz ammonia tends to be more toxic at different PH levels. And new water changes tend to upset PH levels at this stage.

IMO, do the first water change only after you put livestock in for a while... so that some dissolved organics will be partially taken out, giving time for the biological filtration to cope.

[lona]

Ok man...thanks for all the info..

I'm actually starting tonight already..One last parting qns though please..I understand the pH has to be around 8-8.3...how do people control this during the cycling? besides adding all those additives..anything I should be aware off this early?

Thanks again AT.

[Achilles Tang]

Depending on the salt brand... you should more or less have the PH around there.. as long as it's within 8 to 8.5 should be ok.

Additives to maintain PH is Seachem's Reef Buffer or izzit Marine Buffer.

Good luck!

[Tanzy]

Reef and Marine buffer is the same stuff. Alternative is Kent superbuffer dKH or something.

[lona]

Thanks a whole bunch guys..will prb start another thread when I get into the project proper..maybe can chronicle it with pictures if things turn out ok, so that other pple can learn from my wins and loses..hope more wins than loses lar.. <_

[newdamsel]

Did you mention that you are going to use 2x125l/h powerhead for circulation in your 3ft? I suggest that you get soemthing much higher....

say 600l/h and above?

[ZeRoC00l]

Reef and Marine buffer is the same stuff. Alternative is Kent superbuffer dKH or something.

Are they the same thing?!?!

Cos I'm using both.

One says tt it maintains PH at 8.3 and it's ok if accidentally overdosed, while the other says to check parameters before dosing?!?!

[lona]

Hi newdamsel,

Yup yup..cos I figured after taking away the volume of the rock and the sand, the volume of water I have (of course paper calculation lar) is 6.1 gal leh, translates to about 25liters (23.9 actually).

So I read that I should take the 25 liters and multiply that by 5? or something...so that's how I got the 125 l/h..I figured 2 should be enough ley..

[newdamsel]

I'm not sure about your calculations.. my 2 footer is 2 by 1 by 1.. it suppose to be 15 galloon and that translate to 54 liters... minus rocks and sand, still should be able to have abt 30~40 liters right? yours is 3 by 1 by 1, should have more water la....

Anyway, I'm having a 900l/h powerhead and a return from sump rated at 1200l/h, but i guess after the head pressure i get about 600l/h to create circulation and a 500l/h at the back of rockworks to prevent accumulation of deritus at the back of the rockworks...

slightly overkill, but the fishes can stay still in the water so i din really care much....

[lona]

?

really ar? That's odd I did my calculations quite a few times leh..

Ok..see if I made a mistake:

3x1x1: vol is 22.5gal (85liters)

3x1x0.333: sand vol is 7.5gal

3x1x0.125: air vol is abt 3gal ( top of tank must have some space mah)

remaining is abt 12gal, divided by two because I putting 1pd rock to 1gal water, so is abt 6gal water..means abt 25liter..

Dun forget I using ONLY DSB and LR with help frm powerhead..no sump no skimmer..cos no cash..

Pls let me know if I doing anything wrong leh..of course as I fill the water I'll also use some common sense lor..

Anyways, I'm off to buy the sand, tonight will be sand washing time..will update soon..the shop's just behind my place..5min walk..

[lona]

grrr..gouchy woman at the shop said she had #1 sand, reach there she say don't have..like I owe her money like that.. <_<

anyways, is $10 for 10kg expensive?

[BlueTerror]

Which shop did u go to? $10 for 10 kg is dirt cheap. unless its $10/kg den standard price nowadays.

[lona]

hmm...went to reef aquarius... ..after all I didnt' lift the bag to be sure, and this is the same woman who told me she had #1 sand when she DIDN'T have ANY..GRRRR...

Anyways, she's going to call me when her #1 sand comes in..I can always confirm again with you when I go and buy ok? She said Monday..so fingers crossed here..can't wait to get started on my tank..*sigh*

[TanGo]

Patience is part of the game.. Dun rush..

[lona]

heh heh..ok man..that will be my mantra..

[KingFish]

anyways, is $10 for 10kg expensive?

Hi Lona,

Welcome to SRC.

Well, as discussed briefly here, #1 sand typically go for $8 per 10 kg pack but you need that much sand so you don't have to break your balls to save a couple of bucks.

When I purchased my LRs, I inspect them before purchase to ensure their sweet ocean smell and check them over for any undesirable creatures. And when I get back, I give them a good scrub in salt water to remove the grime and dying.

According to some overseas aquarists, you can aerate them with an airpump overnight just to be sure.

[KingFish]

Add half a tea spoon (not table spoon hor) of common table white sugar(your kopi sugar) the 2nd day.

Just curious Hon, why sugar?