Source of Saltwater....

[May&Bruce]

Just want to know how many reefers mix their own salt water and how many buy water from a LFS. Also particularly interested in whether anyone has had bad experiences with the quality of water that they have bought from a LFS

[madmac]

I buy water from one of the LFS in Pasir Ris. I am sitting on the fence as to whether its better or not. I'm in it for convience and value, also because I don't own a RO/DI unit to make syntatic sea water.

It is my believe that sea-salts can never be anywhere close to what Natural seawater can give. The only thing is its jus an opnion only, I can't prove anything for the ones here. This being Singapore, lately there been a lot of rain here, so I expect lots of land runoff to go to the sea, and I'm sure it'll affect the NSW purchased. I don't know how LFS compensate for this, I'm not even sure how they process the water thats collected, except that it looks very clear.

Tests initially show ok, dKH at 7, as SG at 1.26/27. Iwarna says they UV their water, but personally I don't believe they do so as a clean container I placed in the veranda, exposed to sunlight will coat with algae after 1 day... thats an indication of nutrients. I now keep them in the dark, (yes that still doesn't eliminate the nutrients), but its better than having to deal with containers coated with algae on the innards.

[May&Bruce]

madmac, thanks for your comments. I have often wondered too, where the fish farms get their seawater from...Presumably from the sea...duh...but I also presume from the Singapore coast. So are they treating it in any way? If so, how?

[k0na_scab]

hmmm many of the farms use NSW , collected frm the coast line

if i'm nt wrong , collection place is usually ard tanah merah area there(for e east side farms)

for filtration, the water is 'cycled' tru cotton filter n LR.(i peeped in)

some shop jus leave the water in the storage tank ,no filtration but it wks juz fine

[johntanjm]

I think we shouldnt ask where fish farms get their saltwater. Cos their saltwater is to keep the fish for just a day, then sell off to retailers the next. And I think a very sad truth we all should be aware of is fish farms are profit oriented. they want high turnover. cos the longer they keep, they'll incur hidden costs on food and the probability of weaker fish dying off increases.

Maybe we should ask where does Sentosa Underwater World get their saltwater from.

Seawater varies from place to place. thats why there's something like GBR in australia and polluted seaside in singapore. and if i'm not wrong, deep sea water is different from coastal water.

RO/DI tap water and mix ur own i think is the best. Although salt can never be a 100% identical replacement to reef water, but at least we know that elements required for the sustainence of marine life will not be left out.

so at the end of the day, seawater is convenient but heavy, salt mix with unprocessed tap water has cholrine and other stuff. i think better invest the thot into getting a good filtration and water circulation system, and the appropriate additives

[kueytoc]

beware of the water that you buy from LFS...even though their claim is that their water passes through UV or already filtered.

I used to purchase water from different sources & had always experienced some problematic water parameters, diseases & ionic imbalance.

Eventually, I decided to try mixing my own seawater now using Marine Env salts...& no regrets since then !

My fishes & corals all happy & most important I know I have control over the quality of seawater.

[cityofangels]

A friend of mine bought a bag of water from the LFS and after doing a water change, things started dying in his tank!

It's kind of scary, really.. Esp. when you trust the water from the LFS to be reliable.

[Alvin Tan]

sentosa if i not wrong discharge their water back into the sea????....nt sure myself...for me....i use NSW for the first run in.....other den tt..use saltmix...

[madmac]

I think we shouldnt ask where fish farms get their saltwater. Cos their saltwater is to keep the fish for just a day, then sell off to retailers the next. And I think a very sad truth we all should be aware of is fish farms are profit oriented. they want high turnover. cos the longer they keep, they'll incur hidden costs on food and the probability of weaker fish dying off increases.

John, LFSs are also humans, they need to make a living, no. Efficiency n cost are impt too them, ...for the volume they do. 'cause you're not a LFS, and until you start to run one... lets not get into that.

I used store bought NSW for so long, that the spare pkt of sea-salt has hardened beyond use. Aside from the nurtients leves that you will have, they have serve my tank very well. No tops-up of Mg, or amino acids, or other trace needed. I've brought up the concerns above cause it was asked.... but I will still continue to get from them, until a RO/DI unit comes and I have some excess space to play abt with the preparation of syntactic seawater, they will be my 1st choice of water replenishment.

Beside cost, time, and true measure of SSSalts, they are miles away from good NSW, read this months postings on Advance aquarist on seasalts, and you'll know how wonderful NSW really is when compared to SSS. When discussing toxicity, NSW have been know to keep very sensitive invertebrates younglings/frys/whatevertheycalled alive, something which many SSS kill.

CoA, that can happen, but were you there to see it, did he/she stir up things etc, cause if the sea water was contaminated, he won't be the only one suffering casualties, the LS at the LFS would be the first to go, along with many other who bought. I'm sure the NSW supplier doesn't want to lose his business. Its a pretty big business too, he doesn't jus supply to LFS only, restaurants with live food fish would be his other customers. I'm most sure they are careful about such things.

[Alvin Tan]

IMO...using NSW for the first time is the best way....i have observe so many tanks both starting with NSW and saltmix...corals tend to bloom up and water parameters are quite stable after u use saltmix for water change...

for saltmix...success rate was nt as fantastic as NSW...hmmz...maybe jus my thoughts..

[Panzz]

I am also using NSW as it really is good.

[somebody]

i'm neither for or against NSW, but what i heard was that NSW might have eggs of some species that you might not want in your tank.

then when you put the NSW in your tank, then they BLOOM, then your tank would be flooded with the parasites. is this true? it does make sense thou.. =(

[Alvin Tan]

actually...i dun mind using NSW for the whole process only if i have a storage tub n can treat the water.....using saltmix for water change..now if i change water i let the FW run for 2 daes b4 adding salt..anyway..does it help in anyway??..

[somebody]

like how? run with UV?

i think running the water for 2days would help clear chlorine

[May&Bruce]

hmmm, so most NSW sold by LFS is the same water as they use in their tanks? That makes sense, but is another reason why I would not use it any more. I just do not think that it is worth taking the risk, unless you are damn sure that you know where the LFS gets the water and how they treat it.

There are some LFS around whose tanks look so dirty and always have dead fish in them....many of us know who those LFS are...

Personally, I think that mixing salt is far less hassle than jumping in a car/taxi and going off to the LFS, then lugging a few heavy bags of NSW around.

Point taken about DI or RO systems being expensive. I am going to look into doing a DIY cheapo DI system. We use DI water at work so I have access to the supplier of DI resin.....will publish any plans/ideas I have at that time.

[jem]

i have been using NSW to start my tank..

and SSS to do regular top ups/waterchange..

used to get those mineral water bottles to mix my salt..

then switched to those big DI water coolers to aid the hassles..

and yes!..i planned to do a DI unit too!..

Bruce..please enlighten me more on your plans..maybe we can come up with something haha!..thanks man!

[May&Bruce]

jem, sure will do!

[somebody]

but if you buy NSW to start you tank, dun really need to cycle right? pardon my ignorance.

[iantoh]

hi there everyone!

I use NSW, so shall share some of my experiences with it.

i have used lfs purchased NSW for almost four years now, and its worked great throughout. I quarantine the water, by placing the bags or jerry cans of newly bought NSW in a corner in my kitchen toilet for at least a week before using. this period of time should kill off most of the protozoans.

from what i know, the lfs in pasir ris get their NSW from a supplier that pumps the NSW from the coast near changi. ive also personally seen a water truck pumping seawater into a lorry's storage tank from a drain at west coast park at high tide. it certainly doesnt sound terribly clean, but it works well i think, if you quarantine the water. i usually test my tank's water when i do a water change as i usually need to top up on alk a little to bring it closer to 10dkh, so sometimes, i test the batch of NSW before adding it in too, and have not found NO3 levels beyond 10ppm or discernable PO4 levels. Singapore's waters are by no means super clean though, and i'm sure if there are problematic levels of oils or other chemicals in the water, i'd have no way of knowing. but well... NSW is so cheap and convenient. theres no need to mix or hook up a powerhead to leave overnight in a huge tub, and no need for an RO/DI unit, no concerns about deionization of salts. just buy back, throw in some corner to quarantine, then direct into the tank.

ideally though, id like to run NSW through a UV filter and poly filter before it enters the tank, as the reefers in the US do, but i cant think of a cheap way to do that yet, so quarantining will do.

some three or four weeks ago, i bought NSW from my usual NSW LFS at pasir ris, only to hear the following night from a reefer that they experienced a total wipe out of all the fish in their tanks suing the same batch of water. i got quite worried, so quarantined that batch of water for a total of two weeks before using, and it turned out ok. i started learning bout reefing through wetwebmedia, so everything is quarantine with me.

plus with NSW, theres no real need to supplement iodine, strontium or such trace elements if you change water at least once fortnightly. plus reefers staying near each other who use NSW can borrow spare NSW from each other for emergencies.

cheers,

ian

cheers all,

ian

[somebody]

bro, why would the 2 wk "quarantine period" kill of anything? its just left there what. wouldn't it continue to live in the waters?

[Panzz]

actually about the 'killing' things part when quarantined is quite true, IMO. as you see the NSW left in a coner sealed off by the cover of your jerry can will gradually reduce the amount of oxygen levels in that can of water, so of cos any living organisms will sooner of later die of the fact that there is insufficient amount of oxygen.

[Ancelot]

actually about the 'killing' things part when quarantined is quite true, IMO. as you see the NSW left in a coner sealed off by the cover of your jerry can will gradually reduce the amount of oxygen levels in that can of water, so of cos any living organisms will sooner of later die of the fact that there is insufficient amount of oxygen.

I agree about the killing off. However, I do not agree that we should not aerate the water. There is a need to consider about the micro organisms in the tank as well. If we leave them to die, that will indirectly foul our water quality too. So in a way, using NSW you stand to gain some, you lose some.

But, I will still stick with my point, that we got to aerate the water, or else there is no point getting seawater if it is void of life. Does not make much difference from salt mix.

Anyway, I will always be disgusted by LFS which get NSW and do not aerate them.

Not to mention proud shop keepers too.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[somebody]

but if you don't quarintine and kill of the living organisms, there might be parasites too! =(

[Ancelot]

but if you don't quarintine and kill of the living organisms, there might be parasites too! =(

Exactly. That's why using NSW you stand to win some and stand to lose some too. It all boils down to which side of the world you want to stand on?

The Good? The Bad? Or the Ugly?

[somebody]

i don't think i mind buying NSW, and kill of everything(if i can) and it ending up to be something like saltmix. haha.. safer.. esp since all the bio stuff can be found in the current tank already. =)